Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I personally have grown to dislike the Fact people are now able to gain Mechanical advantage their class should not have access to. It seems to unbalance the game in quite a drastic way. Below is my negative experience with the change. ((I would have made this post much sooner had I have known about the Feats being added before today))


I have been playing a HIPs character now for about 3 years now, with Hanner. It used to be that in a week of doing things for espionage and other things in the shadows I would be caught and confronted maybe once or twice. It would almost always be a Rogue, Ranger, druid that could catch you so you would actively avoid those people. Now anyone and their dog has the option to see you and you have no way of knowing.

The game limitation of 80 spot sees any Hiden player even though they may have rolled 100+ for a hide check. Makes life as a rouge difficult enough, now we have to worry classes and characters that could not see us before may suddenly have the chance to.

What are everyone's thoughts and opinions on this I know UMD and Tumble have also been a concern for some people though I've not run into it yet myself.

Whoever implemented this, def had RP in mind...

Cant wait for the next 100% RCR period, so that all my characters can take advantage of this new RP potential.

For a moment I thought this complaint was about UMD.

Never would have thought spot would be the tipping point, that said, is it common for people to take the feat to add spot to their build?

YourMoveHolyMan wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:47 pm For a moment I thought this complaint was about UMD.

Never would have thought spot would be the tipping point, that said, is it common for people to take the feat to add spot to their build?

Its the one skill that wizards/sorcerers for example cannot easily get. And they got all the spells to enhance it. No brainer to me. Other than that, Barbarian/Rangers with full umd is sweet as well.

PS

Tazzers wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:13 pmI have been playing a HIPs character now for about 3 years now, with Hanner. It used to be that in a week of doing things for espionage and other things in the shadows I would be caught and confronted maybe once or twice. It would almost always be a Rogue, Ranger, druid that could catch you so you would actively avoid those people. Now anyone and their dog has the option to see you and you have no way of knowing.

If you want to spy on other get rid of rogue. They disabled the class on this server. Build a ranger instead. Who ever can spot a ranger can be killed by a ranger.

Cosmopolitan feats have nothing to do with detection, as you need 0 UMD to use potions/elixirs (Greater heroism, Owl's insight etc), only 10 to use wands (C/C, Amplify etc) and 13 to equip any possible gear. Also, the spotter is at the advantage by default, since they roll 1d20 and the sneak doesn't.

Are elixirs of owl's insight overpowered? I think they are, but it's an entirely different topic.

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:02 am Cosmopolitan feats have nothing to do with detection, as you need 0 UMD to use potions/elixirs (Greater heroism, Owl's insight etc), only 10 to use wands (C/C, Amplify etc) and 13 to equip any possible gear. Also, the spotter is at the advantage by default, since they roll 1d20 and the sneak doesn't.

Are elixirs of owl's insight overpowered? I think they are, but it's an entirely different topic.

Not uncommon for a dedicated sneak to get into the mid to high 90s on hide, high 80s for move silently.

I think you’d need some innate points in spot to see that as IIRC skill boosts from gear/potions maxes at 50. Assume you can get a bare minimum of +5 wisdom bonus from owls insight elixirs you’d still need 25 points or so to hit 80.

So I think it is a valid issue to discuss in that regard.

I'd be interested to see how many level 30 characters currently actually have cosmopolitan spot or listen. I doubt it's many. Most people with spot have rogue, whirling dervish or shadowdancer dips, or their base majority class already has spot access. Pureish clerics or mages, like mrm3ntalist mentions perhaps pick it though, but even there many mages have other avenues (listen from palemaster, for example, harper mage has both, etc...).

I see a lot of builds with dips for tumble, umd and spot.

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:20 am

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:02 am Cosmopolitan feats have nothing to do with detection, as you need 0 UMD to use potions/elixirs (Greater heroism, Owl's insight etc), only 10 to use wands (C/C, Amplify etc) and 13 to equip any possible gear. Also, the spotter is at the advantage by default, since they roll 1d20 and the sneak doesn't.

Are elixirs of owl's insight overpowered? I think they are, but it's an entirely different topic.

Not uncommon for a dedicated sneak to get into the mid to high 90s on hide, high 80s for move silently.

I think you’d need some innate points in spot to see that as IIRC skill boosts from gear/potions maxes at 50. Assume you can get a bare minimum of +5 wisdom bonus from owls insight elixirs you’d still need 25 points or so to hit 80.

So I think it is a valid issue to discuss in that regard.

I used to main a fighter with 8 wisdom and 16 umd, he had 63 passive spot just from the gear avaliable at the shops. Greater heroism gets it to 67, owl's insight to 73, C/C to 83, letting you detect anyone sooner or later. With enough dedication and free time, you can find ranger elixirs that add +7 on top.

Playing some typical rogue, it's harder since you need to invest into sneak gear, and most of it doesn't provide spot scores (unless you have some grandfathered op items, of course). But even there you can swap gear, using sneak gear in combat and spot gear in conversations. It's a lot of bother to do, at least for me, but I know some people who care to do it.

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:23 am I'd be interested to see how many level 30 characters currently actually have cosmopolitan spot or listen. I doubt it's many. Most people with spot have rogue, whirling dervish or shadowdancer dips, or their base majority class already has spot access. Pureish clerics or mages, like mrm3ntalist mentions perhaps pick it though, but even there many mages have other avenues (listen from palemaster, for example, harper mage has both, etc...).

I see a lot of builds with dips for tumble, umd and spot.

I think the rationale behind cosmo feats was partially to prevent some silly dips. I’d also bet UMD is the most taken cosmo feat.

Probably a good question for Ged. If possible, to see what the data says. But to be fair to the OP, even a few can change the game if you’re RPing as a spy for various reasons.

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:23 am I'd be interested to see how many level 30 characters currently actually have cosmopolitan spot or listen. I doubt it's many. Most people with spot have rogue, whirling dervish or shadowdancer dips, or their base majority class already has spot access. Pureish clerics or mages, like mrm3ntalist mentions perhaps pick it though, but even there many mages have other avenues (listen from palemaster, for example, harper mage has both, etc...).

I see a lot of builds with dips for tumble, umd and spot.

none of my lvl 30 got cosmopolitan feat because i knew about it only 3 days before 100% RCR ends.
else all of them will have it. so assume all 10 of my lvl 30's will take it if there is another 100% RCR comes or when i have time to re-level them.
just for the record, add 10 from me.

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:41 am

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:20 am

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:02 am Cosmopolitan feats have nothing to do with detection, as you need 0 UMD to use potions/elixirs (Greater heroism, Owl's insight etc), only 10 to use wands (C/C, Amplify etc) and 13 to equip any possible gear. Also, the spotter is at the advantage by default, since they roll 1d20 and the sneak doesn't.

Are elixirs of owl's insight overpowered? I think they are, but it's an entirely different topic.

Not uncommon for a dedicated sneak to get into the mid to high 90s on hide, high 80s for move silently.

I think you’d need some innate points in spot to see that as IIRC skill boosts from gear/potions maxes at 50. Assume you can get a bare minimum of +5 wisdom bonus from owls insight elixirs you’d still need 25 points or so to hit 80.

So I think it is a valid issue to discuss in that regard.

I used to main a fighter with 8 wisdom and 16 umd, he had 63 passive spot just from the gear avaliable at the shops. Greater heroism gets it to 67, owl's insight to 73, C/C to 83, letting you detect anyone sooner or later. With enough dedication and free time, you can find ranger elixirs that add +7 on top.

Playing some typical rogue, it's harder since you need to invest into sneak gear, and most of it doesn't provide spot scores (unless you have some grandfathered op items, of course). But even there you can swap gear, using sneak gear in combat and spot gear in conversations. It's a lot of bother to do, at least for me, but I know some people who care to do it.

Gear and spell bonuses to skill cap at 50. IIRC, you can't have 63 from gear and spells no matter what you do, it will only account 50 points and no more.

For my part, I'm more likely to take Cosmopolitan Hide/MS as soft class prerequisites in some of my more exotic builds.

EasternCheesE wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:05 am

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:41 am

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:20 am

Not uncommon for a dedicated sneak to get into the mid to high 90s on hide, high 80s for move silently.

I think you’d need some innate points in spot to see that as IIRC skill boosts from gear/potions maxes at 50. Assume you can get a bare minimum of +5 wisdom bonus from owls insight elixirs you’d still need 25 points or so to hit 80.

So I think it is a valid issue to discuss in that regard.

I used to main a fighter with 8 wisdom and 16 umd, he had 63 passive spot just from the gear avaliable at the shops. Greater heroism gets it to 67, owl's insight to 73, C/C to 83, letting you detect anyone sooner or later. With enough dedication and free time, you can find ranger elixirs that add +7 on top.

Playing some typical rogue, it's harder since you need to invest into sneak gear, and most of it doesn't provide spot scores (unless you have some grandfathered op items, of course). But even there you can swap gear, using sneak gear in combat and spot gear in conversations. It's a lot of bother to do, at least for me, but I know some people who care to do it.

Gear and spell bonuses to skill cap at 50. IIRC, you can't have 63 from gear and spells no matter what you do, it will only account 50 points and no more.

Alright, it's 82 instead of 83. Still good enough!
(63 is the total, not the gear bonus itself)

These feats do throw class balance completely out of whack, especially in our 3by20 environment, I agree.

I just put Cosmo: UMD into a new Build, because, like...I like to Role-play using lots of magic stuff.

But if the Staff remove the mechanical boosting version of the Cosmo Feats AND NOT also Elixirs....