Wagons Ho area feedback

[Kitunenotsume]

Hello,
I wasn't sure if a thread for this existed already, but I figured I might give some feedback for the Wagons Ho area, accessible from the Wagonmaster outside Greenest.

1) It's a lovely map, aith a great concept. I'm guessing it's one of the newer dungeons following the various dialogs going on, and It s a solid start.

2) I didn't actually combat on it at all. I cast Scrying, and ran around, which led me to notice two things:

3) My scrying sensor apparently engages in regular trade while traveling, as I was informed that two events occured that caused me to lose gold, but did not report the value. I presume this was deducted straight from my character, not the Scrying sensor, and thus bypassed combat log.
This is a neat mechanic, but isn't very visible or forewarned - especially not while controlling a scouting familiar.

4) the Hill Giants at the end can see invisible and are definitely the "finishline" - I learned this because my two approaches from the south were instantly stopped when my Scrying Sensor was knocked-down before ven seeing opponents and destroyed by a hail of rocks that deal magic damage (The sensor claims to be immune to physical). While not a bad concept, I do think it results that there is a definite "Right" and "Wrong" way to approach this dungeon that is not clear at all to someone selecting the first options in the caravan dialog.
edit - For reference, I saw 4 yellow-named hill-giants as the first encounter near the South entrance, and nowhere else. the rest was orcs, and various other pinky-purple named spawns.

[artemitavik]

This map is neat. The drowning mechanic is cool, but was telling me I was drowning in water that was only leg high at a couple points, so that was weird.

I didn't run across any weird encounters that cost me gold or anything. The NPCs spread throughout are a neat touch.

There DO seem to be a huge number of hill giant mini-bosses. More hill-giant mini-bosses than regular hill giants. Not sure if that's just the encounter scaler or what, but I think it was pretty close to 80% hill giant commanders in the giant encounters.

[MrSmith]

Outstanding map!

The drowning function worked perfectly fine for me. The Hill Giants did spawn 3 x Yellow Bosses for me too shortly after I dispatched a spawn of three Hill Giants where one of them was also a yellow boss.

I spent 300 gold pieces after dialoguing with three separate Tradersson NPCs and was pleasantly surprised with the value of the items I acquired.

The Iron Golems were difficult enough to rate Yellow Boss labels, and yet an appropriate challenge otherwise.

Kudos to the Dev Team!

Cheers

[Kitunenotsume]

This map is neat. The drowning mechanic is cool, but was telling me I was drowning in water that was only leg high at a couple points, so that was weird.

I didn't run across any weird encounters that cost me gold or anything. The NPCs spread throughout are a neat touch.

My supposition is that there are unseen skill-checks, and my Scying Sensor has abysmal Appraise which was rolled, and your drowning situation might have been the similar.
If those skill rolls could be more visible, I think it would be helpful just to have a confirmation that a skill was rolled, instead of an arbitrary popup.

[DM Spartacus]

1) It's a lovely map, aith a great concept. I'm guessing it's one of the newer dungeons following the various dialogs going on, and It s a solid start.

Map was one of three Silver mine, Land Ho, and Wagons Ho, all built to certain themes. This one and land ho are trade runs for those so inclined. It covers all of the themes mentioned in recent forum conversation but was built earlier. A collaboration between dm and builder (Xaltotun) It was build on the back of in game rp and a desire for trade areas. A run here can be about the same as a dungeon, but especially for trading/scouting skilled. Some of the content followed a Rocky Creek trail blazing event.

2) I didn't actually combat on it at all. I cast Scrying, and ran around, which led me to notice two things:

3) My scrying sensor apparently engages in regular trade while traveling, as I was informed that two events occured that caused me to lose gold, but did not report the value. I presume this was deducted straight from my character, not the Scrying sensor, and thus bypassed combat log.
This is a neat mechanic, but isn't very visible or forewarned - especially not while controlling a scouting familiar.

So never knew a scry would set this off. But trade and exploring skills are tested along route offering small gold loss/gain for skill checks. (assumes a trading expedition) gain displays but loss for some (builder reason) does not but 500-2000 gold can be lost/gained. So normally pc sets this off not scry but who knew? (will advise builder)

4) the Hill Giants at the end can see invisible and are definitely the "finishline" - I learned this because my two approaches from the south were instantly stopped when my Scrying Sensor was knocked-down before ven seeing opponents and destroyed by a hail of rocks that deal magic damage (The sensor claims to be immune to physical). While not a bad concept, I do think it results that there is a definite "Right" and "Wrong" way to approach this dungeon that is not clear at all to someone selecting the first options in the caravan dialog.

Not sure how much this matters - can be learned but will pass to builder.

of note traders give random trade for gold, some of these refer to rocky run event, adding a slight pc dimension. There are hidden caves which are not always open (representing doing various wagon runs - so not always same) These caves lead to a central cave which is epic difficult (something to loot maybe but not fight or seek big party kudos of combat?) The trade part is strictly on surface on both wagons Ho and Land Ho

some info has been released re areas on map/on forum/in game events

So a lot of the recent thoughts on area debate well covered.

There DO seem to be a huge number of hill giant mini-bosses. More hill-giant mini-bosses than regular hill giants. Not sure if that's just the encounter scaler or what, but I think it was pretty close to 80% hill giant commanders in the giant encounters.

Saw this run. Does not always appear so maybe level based or random luck.

Outstanding map!

will pass to dev

The drowning function worked perfectly fine for me. The Hill Giants did spawn 3 x Yellow Bosses for me too shortly after I dispatched a spawn of three Hill Giants where one of them was also a yellow boss.

dev trying to have drowning support water breathing (not done yet)

I spent 300 gold pieces after dialoguing with three separate Tradersson NPCs and was pleasantly surprised with the value of the items I acquired.

This is good for traders and scales if selling with appraise skills. But sits about same as dungeon run. (hopefully)

The Iron Golems were difficult enough to rate Yellow Boss labels, and yet an appropriate challenge otherwise.

here this is underground and you must have found a way into cave ...this may be varied each reset. Centre of cave can be challenging and wipe even a party.

Kudos to the Dev Team!

will pass to dev and this hopefully this shares with others keen to vary exploring experience.

[artemitavik]

This map is neat. The drowning mechanic is cool, but was telling me I was drowning in water that was only leg high at a couple points, so that was weird.

I didn't run across any weird encounters that cost me gold or anything. The NPCs spread throughout are a neat touch.

My supposition is that there are unseen skill-checks, and my Scying Sensor has abysmal Appraise which was rolled, and your drowning situation might have been the similar.
If those skill rolls could be more visible, I think it would be helpful just to have a confirmation that a skill was rolled, instead of an arbitrary popup.

I guess my issue with the drowning thing was I was taking damage when I was literally in water that didn't even come up to my knees while "drowning", it was a bit odd. But the mechanic was neat.

Sadly, couldn't get into any of the caves, they were all locked.

I did not encounter any random "trade deals" rolls to randomly gain or lose money or anything like that, did have the NPC encounters to buy stuff to sell later, that was neat.

I don't know where to find Silvermine or land ho if they're in yet.

[DM Spartacus]

Sadly, couldn't get into any of the caves, they were all locked.

pretty sure you may have missed one.

I did not encounter any random "trade deals" rolls to randomly gain or lose money or anything like that, did have the NPC encounters to buy stuff to sell later, that was neat.

will check but should run.

I don't know where to find Silvermine or land ho if they're in yet.

old silver mine is in trollclaws (bototm right via bridge or FoD and turn right)

Land ho (option 8 BG dock ship guy)

[artemitavik]

Very possibly missed an unlocked mine. I found three, no entry to any of them.

[Theodore01]

the blade master gave almost no xp and dropped nothing, at least he should be made to drop something.

[MrSmith]

The Iron Golems were difficult enough to rate Yellow Boss labels, and yet an appropriate challenge otherwise.

here this is underground and you must have found a way into the cave ...this may be varied each reset. The Centre of the cave can be challenging and wipe even a party.

I would like to update my assessment as to whether or not the challenge is appropriate. There is an adversary in the Cave without a yellow boss (any color for that matter depicting a non-standard foe) label that is the strongest foe, hardest challenge on the server. Last night three 30 level characters were beaten like circle monkeys by an opponent immune to critical hits, 15 DR/ Adamantine, and an apparently endless number of HP. This foe hits HARD and can cut anyone in half with two or more successful blows landed. Combat logs indicate this foe has a 69 AB.

Considering two of the three characters can successfully defeat the White Dragon when working in a party, this foe far exceeds the White Dragon's lethal prowess.

If you seek adventure... Go forth. I highly advise only large and balanced parties pick a fight with this foe.

Cheers!

[izzul]

The Iron Golems were difficult enough to rate Yellow Boss labels, and yet an appropriate challenge otherwise.

here this is underground and you must have found a way into the cave ...this may be varied each reset. The Centre of the cave can be challenging and wipe even a party.

I would like to update my assessment as to whether or not the challenge is appropriate. There is an adversary in the Cave without a yellow boss (any color for that matter depicting a non-standard foe) label that is the strongest foe, hardest challenge on the server. Last night three 30 level characters were beaten like circle monkeys by an opponent immune to critical hits, 15 DR/ Adamantine, and an apparently endless number of HP. This foe hits HARD and can cut anyone in half with two or more successful blows landed. Combat logs indicate this foe has a 69 AB.

Considering two of the three characters can successfully defeat the White Dragon when working in a party, this foe far exceeds the White Dragon's lethal prowess.

If you seek adventure... Go forth. I highly advise only large and balanced parties pick a fight with this foe.

Cheers!

[MrSmith]

the blade master gave almost no xp and dropped nothing, at least he should be made to drop something.

Wow! The chests are mediocre, and so I am surprised considering how difficult of a challenge the Blademaster is...

Cheers!

[Kitunenotsume]

Ran through this again witha friend, so we could do the events and experience encounters.

It was definitely fun, and great for RP, but with one quirk:
Both the main map, and in the caves, we noticed that the encounter would respawn while we were in the middle of looting (perhaps a minute or two)and forced us to complete the combat encounters a second time and at point-blank range. This was pretty jarring as we were slow-rolling through with RP and had to fight again often in the middle of discussing what we had just encountered.

We didnt get any triple-sawns that I noticed, though.

Moving North to the 1 position in the conversation with the wagon-master would also be a reasonable change, I think. Since that is the more gradual approach, instead of "Here's instant death to the unexpected" that 3 giant spawns does.

Also, when I was informed that I lost money from an event, the amount lost was never displayed.

[Kitunenotsume]

Returning with a different friend, we discovered that the deep lake area is happy to drown Constructs, which by common rules don't need to breath and thus are immune to drowning.

We figured that the script for that location was looking explicitly for the Water Breathing spells, after my Scrying Sensor kicked the bucket repeatedly.
However, since it's not available from stores, we were unable to confirm yet.

Overall, still fun, and very much one of the maps I like most.

[DM Spartacus]

Wow! The chests are mediocre, and so I am surprised considering how difficult of a challenge the Blademaster is...

Theme was somewhat that perhaps some things are best avoided, though for others (power builds and technical thinkers) here was a challenge. Both approaches to this issue have been looked at by players. Not sure every dungeon need follow the same theme, ie last cave is there to be the main objective. However open to change as this was something ofd a theme experiment.

Both the main map, and in the caves, we noticed that the encounter would respawn while we were in the middle of looting (perhaps a minute or two)and forced us to complete the combat encounters a second time and at point-blank range. This was pretty jarring as we were slow-rolling through with RP and had to fight again often in the middle of discussing what we had just encountered.

Not noticed this on runs but will ask builder to check. This may vary I suppose with who and how in respect of the fighting time.

Moving North to the 1 position in the conversation with the wagon-master would also be a reasonable change, I think. Since that is the more gradual approach, instead of "Here's instant death to the unexpected" that 3 giant spawns does.

Thought time would reveal stuff like this, but perhaps a specific warning needs in. For some limited variety was still a thought to allow both directions.

Also, when I was informed that I lost money from an event, the amount lost was never displayed.

loot lost is 1-2 bags I think builder struggled to get it to report properly even after revisit. May try again

Returning with a different friend, we discovered that the deep lake area is happy to drown Constructs, which by common rules don't need to breath and thus are immune to drowning.

still looking for something that might better script this here, it currently damages for entering water. (any volunteers) to offer protection to spell protected creatures and perhaps exclude non breathers is maybe a big ask.

rp wise might be concluded currently water offers risk and if not specifically drowning then it is current sands etc. Something we would like to be more detailed and specific on but time and possibility is the great thing.

Overall, still fun, and very much one of the maps I like most.

ty will feed back to builder. Also as a means of supporting areas some additional caves will routinely be added on a temporary basis representing the varied nature of generic travel.