Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I have been trying to make a decent drow with their Sarol'Veldruk prc and I am really struggling to get something to work "optimally".

Even powerbuilding a PTWF, you would seem to be better off doing 21 ranger and just mix in other classes, so please - Give me some ideas.

Here are few class combos I have been looking into that works, but still is being outshined by already existing "standard" PTWF builds.

ranger/tempst/SV/x, with X being i.e = Dervish, fighter, divine champion, weapon master.

A none ranger version with 12ftr/10SV/x/y, with X & Y being WM, tempest, rogue(prc types rogues too).

Cavestalker?

Terankar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:04 am I have been trying to make a decent drow with their Sarol'Veldruk prc and I am really struggling to get something to work "optimally".

Even powerbuilding a PTWF, you would seem to be better off doing 21 ranger and just mix in other classes, so please - Give me some ideas.

Here are few class combos I have been looking into that works, but still is being outshined by already existing "standard" PTWF builds.

ranger/tempst/SV/x, with X being i.e = Dervish, fighter, divine champion, weapon master.

A none ranger version with 12ftr/10SV/x/y, with X & Y being WM, tempest, rogue(prc types rogues too).

It depends on what you are looking for. If you want utility then ranger with its skills, tracking, and spells is the way to go. It will also out DPS Sarol builds against favored enemies but lose out against non favored enemies.

That being said, Sarol does have huge offensive potential and is a very strong PRC.

For me the strongest builds were fighter 20/Sarol 10 or Fighter 13/weapon master 7/Sarol 10 (or f 12/WM 8/s 10 they are virtually identical).

Maxing out fighter AB and damage enhancements is something like +4/+8. That +8 is better than barb rage damage as it applies equally to both hands where strength is .5 for the offhand.

Throwing Dervish in is a nice boost but even 10 dervish isn’t a huge DPS bump over all the damage bonuses that 20 fighter levels will give you.

I also ultimately prefer fighter to weapon master because of the number or crit immune opponents in epic levels, but honestly with either build you’re doing fine. Better to just build whichever might be more fun to you.

The kicker with Sarol is you need to go to 10 to take full advantage of the PRC so you don’t have a ton of mixing and matching to do. Since you’re starting with 19 dex for instance you can throw in SD (particularly if you use ranger as a base) levels or TA or something… but every time you’re throwing in PRC levels for util you’re going to drop some DPS.

Which by no means makes it unplayable. You can still do plenty of damage with a non optimized Sarol build.

Is that class already in? Would be nice if someone could make a page for it in the wiki

DM Winter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:35 pm Is that class already in? Would be nice if someone could make a page for it in the wiki

It is in. I think it's undergoing a few QoL changes for the next update. I'll be more specific once everything is officially approved. Unless Bloodriot posts them. Once it's all sorted if no one else does, I'll do a wiki update.

Sarol and CoC can have a consistently high damage output that is not conditional with FEs. They are not OP but adding any more to either could push them over.

Both can be extremely strong when properly built and geared.

I would say that CoC is super good.

It has great versatility, can use 3 different styles effectively and doesn't have that much of Feat requirements.

SV is much less like that.

It is locked to a fighting style and has very restrictive feat requirements, making only ranger and fighter optimal choices to build towards the class.

Another direct issue with SV is the weapons are STR AB specific and this creates a stat distribution that doesn't allow for much creativity. It honestly requires powerbuilding. It reminds me of paladins in Baldurs Gate 2. It needed almost every stat possible.

The stats also become a lot more relevant since the saves on SV are reflex only. You could argue that being drow offers a ton of power on its own, but it is per say "worse" as a prc than making a standard ftr/wm/tempest/SD that also gets GTWF.

I do think that comparing it to a STR ranger is viable and the argument that against non FE targets, it performs better that get nullified by the sheer amount of FEs you can take as a pure ranger and the added versatility of the ranger also adds dmg and more versatility for multiclassing.

As a class fantasy, I think SV is just as good as blackguard, assassin, frenzied berserker. It just falls short of being a good option when it comes to creative freedom and has glaring weaknesses.

I dont think CoC has glaring weaknesses. I honestly think it is way too good, regardless of what you set your build to be.

To be completely honest, the reason why SV has such a limited build flexability is it gets one of the best feats in the game, PTWF, as I see it.

If you added that to the CoC it would need a lot of other changes too, since the true strength as I see it, from a PTWF feat that does not have a steep dex requirement, is you can make it in to a strength build and reap much greater benefits in terms of damage output.

The SV build ive made (not played yet) will exceed my strength ranger by miles on paper, in terms of what its capable of. And I even went with a lot of RP themes rather than sheer min maxing.

The biggest problem with CoC and SV are how late bloomers they really are, making you want to invest 10 levels nearly always. Ive made a few dip builds but it feels less justified.

I dont really see any issues with any of this though, I think its a reasonable investment compared to what you get, compared to say TA which is absurd. These two classes are pretty good and fairly strong, if you build them right.

Personally id love for CoC to also apply to spears, though Corellon is a legendary swordsman(elf). But that would open up build avenues id greatly enjoy

Ithilan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:38 am I dont really see any issues with any of this though, I think its a reasonable investment compared to what you get, compared to say TA which is absurd. These two classes are pretty good and fairly strong, if you build them right.

You’re spot on with is. One of the server’s biggest problems between powerbuilds and RP builds are dip PRCs where 3 levels of something gets you it’s strongest feature so that people who max a PRC for character reasons are at a disadvantage compared to people who dip a few for mechanical reasons.

SV and CoC need to be maxxed to take full advantage of what they offer. IMHOP this should be true of others as well.

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:39 pmYou’re spot on with is. One of the server’s biggest problems between powerbuilds and RP builds are dip PRCs where 3 levels of something gets you it’s strongest feature so that people who max a PRC for character reasons are at a disadvantage compared to people who dip a few for mechanical reasons.

That doesnt make any sense. Even if you get classes with 3lvl dips you are still limited to 4 classes.... So at least one has to go more than that. And of course players that maximize their builds mechanically will have an advantage

The problem with this server is when out of the blue classes are implemented with feats such as imp evasion, immunities to knockdown or if you allow prcs such as CoC to be able to use finessable weapons ( rapiers and shortswords( )) and start building DEX/INT builds with PTWF.

Other than concealment it gets ( a very powerful mechanic but in this case it doesnt last too long, still the same as above ) Sarol'Veldruk is not OP and there is only a certain type of builds that can make this PRC powerful

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:17 pm

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:39 pmYou’re spot on with is. One of the server’s biggest problems between powerbuilds and RP builds are dip PRCs where 3 levels of something gets you it’s strongest feature so that people who max a PRC for character reasons are at a disadvantage compared to people who dip a few for mechanical reasons.

That doesnt make any sense. Even if you get classes with 3lvl dips you are still limited to 4 classes.... So at least one has to go more than that. And of course players that maximize their builds mechanically will have an advantage

Of course players that maximize their builds mechanically will have an advantage. But for example HiPS is one of the most powerful defenses in the game which can be gained with 3 SD. 3 TA gives springboard (soon to be changed to 5 TA, which is also exceptionally strong even just for the AC bonus if stun doesn’t land). 3 blackguard opens up EDM. 3 bodyguard is probably the meta for sneak builds. There are plenty of dips that might not make any sense RP wise but create exceptionally powerful builds by front loaded PRCs.

And some of those dips might make RP sense, but balance gets thrown out the window because the front loading means you get a lot more than you give up.

I’d be willing to bet a lot of the most popular classes, as defined by how statistically prevalent they are in player builds, would drop significantly if their prime benefits were moved to later levels.

But the original point- which I think we both agree on- stands. Sarol and CoC need to be taken to 10 to be really worthwhile which mitigates their power curve. If, for example, they got full dex to damage and/or ptwf at 3 they would be hugely problematic.

It is a 10 PrC investment for sure.

It is my opinion that SV is inferior in all scenarios to CoC, even in terms of the fighting style that SV should be the master of.

CoC makes is better at PWTF due to rapier/shortsword options, having finessable options, maxing dex anyways and will outdmg the SV.

Since CoC requires less feats as well with heavy investments required to stats, it can weave more possible combinations to their end build.

I know we should talk roleplay, but people are very much always going for their best option. CoC offers that by a mile - that is my opinion.

Terankar wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:30 pmCoC makes is better at PWTF due to rapier/shortsword options, having finessable options, maxing dex anyways and will outdmg the SV.

Thats the only reason reason the CoC can make stronger builds and IMO, that was a mistake on tha part of the one who developed the class. Not only the did not take rapiers out, but they added shortswords This is a PRC with one of the requirements being heavy armor proficiency and by allowing those weapons you are encouraging finess builds.

Other than that SV makes far superior builds and I already have one planned for the rcr perior. No lets allow drow on the surface so that I can farm everything everything with it.

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:40 pmAnd some of those dips might make RP sense, but balance gets thrown out the window because the front loading means you get a lot more than you give up.

There are/were servers that allowed a player to take even just one level of a class/prc not 3 that is required here. What sense does the rule make that requires you to take at least 3 lvls of a new class?

Anyway, the reason that those dips are important on BG - a must have i would say - is because the way the server is set up. Other servers have items with evasion on, which is an important feat to have on any character and especially on BG where the time-to-kill is very high because of the bloated HP of the mobs. Not only that, but because of every AC being turned to dodge AC, uncanny dodge is now a must have feat. Prepair to see more clerics of Istithia and more Rogue4. Now, if there were items with evasion on, or if the mobs had regular HP then you wouldnt have to dip into rogue for example.

As things stand, evasion and uncanny dodge are kind of mandatory so not one person should be surprised about the level3 dips and more importantly you cannot say that they do not make RP wise. There are a million + 1 reasons for any multiclass dip make sense.

One thing I’m hoping for with the PVE rework is to drop a lot of the HP/save bloat. It kills a lot of caster options and caters to AC + melee dps, or HiPS + melee dps. And it’s boring and grindy.

Also IIRC it might be possible to uncap things like deflection so not everything is dodge AC. I recall that coming up in a conversation but with everything else going on I’m not sure if that’s actively being looked into.