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Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:07 am
by arakan94
So.. I've (partially) made my first real build but found out that I lack experience to decide what should be done on higher levels, especially concerning feats and attribute increases. Currently, he's apprentice to one of Candlekeep scribes, learning about magic and how to be a Wizard.

Attributes
STR 14
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 20
WIS 8
CHA 6

Class progression
Lvl 1 Rogue - Spellcasting Prodigy, Survivor (Hide +2, Spot +2) background, +1d6 SA
Lvl 2 Rogue
Lvl 3 Rogue - Two-Weapon Fighting, +1d6 SA
Lvl 4 Wizard - +1 INT, Illusion specialization (Enchantment opposition), Beetle familiar for early survival, later Cat for Hide and MS
Lvl 5 Wizard
Lvl 6 Wizard - Weapon Focus (Dagger)
Lvl 7 Wizard
Lvl 8 Wizard - +1 INT, Extend spell
Lvl 9 Arcane Trickster - Practiced Spellcaster
Lvl 10 Daggerspell Mage - Daggercast
Lvl 11 Daggerspell Mage -
Lvl 12 Daggerspell Mage - +1 DEX, Weapon Finesse, +1d6 SA
Lvl 13 Daggerspell Mage - Arcane Throw
Lvl 14 Daggerspell Mage - Double Daggercast
Lvl 15 Arcane Trickster - +1 INT, Combat Expertise, +1d6 SA
Lvl 16 Arcane Trickster - Impromptu Sneak Attack
Lvl 17 Daggerspell Mage - +1d6 SA
Lvl 18 Daggerspell Mage - Arcane Infusion, Invisible Needle
Lvl 19 Daggerspell Mage - Double Arcane Throw
Lvl 20 Daggerspell Mage - +1 INT, +1d6 SA
Lvl 21 Daggerspell Mage - Improved TWF, FEAT?
Lvl 22 Arcane Trickster - +1d6 SA
Lvl 23 Arcane Trickster - FEAT?
Lvl 24 Arcane Trickster - +1 INT, +1d6 SA
Lvl 25 Arcane Trickster - FEAT?
Lvl 26 Arcane Trickster - +1d6 SA
Lvl 27 Arcane Trickster - FEAT?
Lvl 28 Arcane Trickster - +1 INT, +1d6 SA
Lvl 29 Wizard? - FEAT?
Lvl 30 Wizard?

Total Sneak Attack dice: 10d6

BAB: +17
- Arcane trickster +5
- Rogue +2
- Wizard +3
- Daggerspell Mage +7

Low levels seem to be pretty clear but I have question marks concerning choice of feats. And I don't know about attribute increases - wizards care most about INT, but maybe this should get some +DEX?

CHA is intentionally low (for RP), WIS could maybe be higher but there probably isn't much benefit to this character and it also makes sense as he didn't have any proper role models.

I'd be happy for any and all advice, especially concerning feats 0:)

UPDATE: Reordered and added some feats, added BAB overview, removed backstory overview in preparation for bio page.

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:13 am
by mrm3ntalist
Do not worry about the dex and max int. Read about the custom changes ( unless you did already of course ). For example, if you max bluff and have hide/ms maxed as well, then basically you can use the new feat that creates diversions and basically hide in plain sight. Anyway, like everyone else, you will not know what to do exactly, unless you level up your character, see what he can and cannot do well based on your playstyle, then rcr to improve him.

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:13 pm
by DaloLorn
No proper role models? Who trains him as a Daggerspell, then? :|

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:15 pm
by arakan94
mrm3ntalist wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:13 am Do not worry about the dex and max int. Read about the custom changes ( unless you did already of course ). For example, if you max bluff and have hide/ms maxed as well, then basically you can use the new feat that creates diversions and basically hide in plain sight. Anyway, like everyone else, you will not know what to do exactly, unless you level up your character, see what he can and cannot do well based on your playstyle, then rcr to improve him.
Well.. This is RcR :) I have around 10k XP (can I see precise amount when I am "Ready to level" somewhere?).

I don't need it to be perfect.. Just would like to avoid any major pitfalls and I also don't have time and strength to read through all the feats and think about the implications while also not knowing the system in detail. Then there is the myriad of items to consider, etc :shock:

So that's why I am asking for some tips.. Maybe just a few feats that would be good (and why) or general ideas of what to expect.

As for the Diversions - yea, I plan to do that but it's quite difficult to imagine how it would work. I tried it out in JEGS but mostly failed to trigger sneak attack with Invisible Needle despite being legit hidden.

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:20 pm
by arakan94
DaloLorn wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:13 pm No proper role models? Who trains him as a Daggerspell, then? :|
No idea - yet ;)

He will have to find the "secluded monastery" mentioned in description and first hear about it from someone.. He didn't have many ideas about Wizardry either (though he did get something from gossip, maybe public libraries, wayfarers, etc = some skill points in Lore Arcana) until he started asking around in Baldur's Gate and this nice Elf suggested Candlekeep and also escorted him there. He then found scribe (Edelgarde) willing to teach him and he's been apprentice since.. :)

This is just me, OoC wanting to have idea about build to avoid many RcRs.

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:29 am
by JIŘÍ
DaloLorn wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:13 pm No proper role models? Who trains him as a Daggerspell, then? :|
Ilhara's new pupil.

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:23 am
by DaloLorn
... I mean... it's not impossible... but he'd have to first find her, then convince her to pass on her knowledge...

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:25 am
by arakan94
DaloLorn wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:23 am ... I mean... it's not impossible... but he'd have to first find her, then convince her to pass on her knowledge...
And where did she learn it?
In a reclusive monastery in the heart of an ancient forest, a varied group of druids and arcane spellcasters train together. The adherents of this monastery work to perfect a unique fighting and spellcasting style that relies on wielding a pair of daggers at all times.
Is this in-game location? I didn't want to make background with some made up teachers and instead RP the search for teachers and the apprenticeship itself.

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:24 am
by DaloLorn
arakan94 wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:25 am
DaloLorn wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:23 am ... I mean... it's not impossible... but he'd have to first find her, then convince her to pass on her knowledge...
And where did she learn it?
Taught by another PC, who I think learned it offscreen.
In a reclusive monastery in the heart of an ancient forest, a varied group of druids and arcane spellcasters train together. The adherents of this monastery work to perfect a unique fighting and spellcasting style that relies on wielding a pair of daggers at all times.
Is this in-game location? I didn't want to make background with some made up teachers and instead RP the search for teachers and the apprenticeship itself.
It's not ingame, and I'm not even sure anyone knows exactly where it is OOC.

In this case, though, you're looking at it slightly wrong. Learning to blend your magic and other stuff to become an Arcane Trickster? Easily self-taught. Becoming a Daggerspell? You'd have to know they exist before you started looking for them. Ilhara didn't; she met a Daggerspell, and they sort of mutually decided she should become one too.

(... And then her mentor disappeared without a trace. :()

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:43 am
by arakan94
DaloLorn wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:24 am It's not ingame, and I'm not even sure anyone knows exactly where it is OOC.

In this case, though, you're looking at it slightly wrong. Learning to blend your magic and other stuff to become an Arcane Trickster? Easily self-taught. Becoming a Daggerspell? You'd have to know they exist before you started looking for them. Ilhara didn't; she met a Daggerspell, and they sort of mutually decided she should become one too.

(... And then her mentor disappeared without a trace. :()
Yea, I feel the same about Arcane Trickster. As for the Daggerspell, yes - he'd have to learn about it from someone (worst case, not ingame) but he could still get the idea of focusing on daggers himself - especially given his backstory (see updated first post for sneak peak).

So my thinking is him loving his dagger and wanting to use it as much as possible -> he'd obviously wonder if he could use it even in casting spells (and he's going to be asking in Candlekeep and likely any mage he meets)..

Re: Need help with first build - Sneaky Wizard

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:29 pm
by arakan94
Could use some advice on Epic feats.. So far, Combat Insight (and therefore its required Epic Prowess) caught my eyes. Maybe Expose Weakness too? Think it's good idea?

Epic Prowess
You gain a +1 bonus on all attacks. You may only take this once.

Combat Insight
When wielding a melee weapon, add your Intelligence modifier, rather than your Strength modifier, to the weapon's damage rolls.

Expose Weakness
The character uses one attack from a flurry. If the attack hits, the target's weakness is exposed: Every round for 4 rounds the target takes damage equal to twice the character's Dexterity bonus (minimum of 2). This damage ignores all damage reductions and immunities. During this time, the target's AC is also reduced by 3. This ability has a cooldown of 12 seconds.

Besides these, there's the Great Intelligence/Dexterity, Improved Sneak Attack or some Epic spell? Really hard to choose..