Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I was considering a character and these two seemed to fit well? Would a 3rd class be required for more damage? I appreciate your input!!

IsilVentura wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:19 am I was considering a character and these two seemed to fit well? Would a 3rd class be required for more damage? I appreciate your input!!

Man at Arms requires a Lawful alignment... How does that square with Corellon Larethian's CG, CN, NG alignment options? Albeit these only apply to Clerics, is it feasible, suitable, and acceptable from an RP point of view to go lawful (rhetorical question)?

To your larger point, I agree combining these two classes would create an exceptionally strong build.

Cheers!

MrSmith wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:56 pm

IsilVentura wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:19 am I was considering a character and these two seemed to fit well? Would a 3rd class be required for more damage? I appreciate your input!!

Man at Arms requires a Lawful alignment... How does that square with Corellon Larethian's CG, CN, NG alignment options? Albeit these only apply to Clerics, is it feasible, suitable, and acceptable from an RP point of view to go lawful (rhetorical question)?

To your larger point, I agree combining these two classes would create an exceptionally strong build.

Cheers!

The alignment options are only there for divine casters. Everyone else of any alignment can follow Corellon Larethian.

zhazz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:12 pm The alignment options are only there for divine casters. Everyone else of any alignment can follow Corellon Larethian.

True, but Champion of Corellon, while they aren't casters, do receive divine blessings and thus are subject to some restrictions. Besides the class requirements are "non-evil". Less restrictions than a cleric, for sure.

A lay worshipper can of course be of any alignment. Being evil and worshipping Corellon is a bit delusional though. See Eldreth Veluuthra.

MrSmith wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:56 pm

IsilVentura wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:19 am I was considering a character and these two seemed to fit well? Would a 3rd class be required for more damage? I appreciate your input!!

Man at Arms requires a Lawful alignment... How does that square with Corellon Larethian's CG, CN, NG alignment options? Albeit these only apply to Clerics, is it feasible, suitable, and acceptable from an RP point of view to go lawful (rhetorical question)?

To your larger point, I agree combining these two classes would create an exceptionally strong build.

Cheers!

Thank you Ghost for addressing the feasible, suitable, and acceptable comment...

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:27 pm

zhazz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:12 pm The alignment options are only there for divine casters. Everyone else of any alignment can follow Corellon Larethian.

True, but Champion of Corellon, while they aren't casters, do receive divine blessings and thus are subject to some restrictions. Besides the class requirements are "non-evil". Less restrictions than a cleric, for sure.

A lay worshipper can of course be of any alignment. Being evil and worshipping Corellon is a bit delusional though. See Eldreth Veluuthra.

Sorry? Wasn't addressing that.

There are a lot of lay followers of Corellon who are lawful. Lawful Good is actually relatively common.

In fact, if we go by AD&D, Corellon's clergy can be any good, and not CN at all:


However, I think Corellon is set to 3.5 alignments in nwn2. Maybe something worth reconsidering.

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:34 pm There are a lot of lay followers of Corellon who are lawful. Lawful Good is actually relatively common.

… actually you did address the question, again. Is it Feasible, Suitable, and Acceptable? It is a matter of your Point of View; meaning there is no right, nor wrong. It is the player's choice to animate their build and RP their decision.

Cheers!

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:34 pm Sorry? Wasn't addressing that.

There are a lot of lay followers of Corellon who are lawful. Lawful Good is actually relatively common.

In fact, if we go by AD&D, Corellon's clergy can be any good, and not CN at all:


However, I think Corellon is set to 3.5 alignments in nwn2. Maybe something worth reconsidering.

Conversely, I am not sure the source of your post...

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Corellon

This source here does not include Lawful. See 3e. No other reference includes alignment.

Cheers!

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:27 pm

zhazz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:12 pm The alignment options are only there for divine casters. Everyone else of any alignment can follow Corellon Larethian.

True, but Champion of Corellon, while they aren't casters, do receive divine blessings and thus are subject to some restrictions. Besides the class requirements are "non-evil". Less restrictions than a cleric, for sure.

A lay worshipper can of course be of any alignment. Being evil and worshipping Corellon is a bit delusional though. See Eldreth Veluuthra.

I'd still consider evil worshipers of Corellon a possibility. Even for clerics and others with divine powers. They are just unlikely to receive any of those powers, but can still very much worship Corellon. Essentially they fall out of favor, and must redeem themselves to receive divine powers again.

Alignment shifts is one of the more interesting aspects of divine role-playing after all. Followers have to be careful how they go about their lives to not fall out of favor. However, actions and events may ultimately set them down a path, where they lose that favor.

Alignment is a measure of a character's morals, integrity, and ideology at any given point in time. It is not an unbreakable rule for how to play a character.


Although DM Ghost did answer the original question on whether or not a Man-at-Arms and Champion of Corellon Larethian is possible in terms of alignment. Which it is.

MrSmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:14 pm Conversely, I am not sure the source of your post...

Demihuman Deities. 2nd edition.

zhazz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:17 pm I'd still consider evil worshipers of Corellon a possibility. Even for clerics and others with divine powers.

Ghost hadn't said it's impossible He pointed towards Eldreth Veluuthra as an example, all of which are absurdly evil and think Corellon will someday support them. Which he won't.

Regardless, being evil and worshipping a good-aligned deity is no issue at all. You do you, Faerun is full of people (primarily humans, here) that worship good-aligned deities and appease evil ones and vice versa. The fact, however, is that you cannot start your character as a cleric of an opposing alignment that to the deity, because the deity would have never approved of you. It's not a matter of "unlikely". It's cut and dry. If anyone falls out of favour from a deity while having the cleric class, it'll be handled IG with suitable consequences leading either to regaining it or forsaking the deity- all being the player's choice.

Alignment is descriptive rather than prescriptive, for the most part. However, one has to remember that they are factual and real forces governing reality, life and magic in Faerun. It is why there exist spells and magical effects that only affect people or creatures of a certain alignment. Alignments being cosmological forces is also the reason why outsiders exist in Dungeons and Dragons. Demons, devils, angels and dragons of various kinds are personifications of the alignments they were made to represent. Of course, there are examples of deviations from "Always x alignment" as all the aforementioned creatures have in their sheet, but they always happen due to an outside influence rather than the creature's internal feelings and thoughts on the matter.

That is not the fact for mortals- the characters and races which we can play as. Most of them have tendencies toward an alignment due to the gods making them in the certain way, some otherworldly corruption or, simply, the society shaping them like it, but nothing is set in stone. Even then, it's not hard to find examples in D&D writing of 3.5, even in novels, where characters discuss good, evil, law and chaos as something they subscribe to, define themselves by or devote their lives to. These forces are objective. It's your choice to follow any of them.


I'm sorry for derailing the topic, but I thought it was something worth mentioning.

DM Soulcatcher wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:30 am I'm sorry for derailing the topic, but I thought it was something worth mentioning.

Actually, I really enjoyed the post. Thank you.

Cheers!

I've appreciated and found all the posts interesting. I'm not more familiar with lore outside of the game itself or learned while playing here.

DM Soulcatcher wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:30 am
Alignment is descriptive rather than prescriptive, for the most part. However, one has to remember that they are factual and real forces governing reality, life and magic in Faerun. It is why there exist spells and magical effects that only affect people or creatures of a certain alignment. Alignments being cosmological forces is also the reason why outsiders exist in Dungeons and Dragons. Demons, devils, angels and dragons of various kinds are personifications of the alignments they were made to represent. Of course, there are examples of deviations from "Always x alignment" as all the aforementioned creatures have in their sheet, but they always happen due to an outside influence rather than the creature's internal feelings and thoughts on the matter.

That should be fixed somewhere xD
Along with the recommendation to praise Garl always!

Actually I would argue that especially Sun-elves has a tendency to learn towards lawful alignments, with their strict and very narrow view on what it means to "be a proper elf" (Read: be a Sun-elf and if that's impossible, then at least act like one )

In general they are highly conservative, fears change and will keep a very stiff upper lip in most social interactions.

Some of my most fun RP has been with a lawful-good Sun-elf who not only was very keen on traditional elven ways, but actually ended up lawful, rather than the neutral good he started out as.

During his run, both DM and I realized that his constant reprimands at the party's other elf, a moon elf fighter/wizard who my elf early on branded as Adawanshee (Sun-elf term meaning "reckless youth")
Was not unlike how the Party's Paladin would react.
Actually my Sun-elf, reluctantly grew to respect the Paladin for his stance on matters like honour, tradition, customs and proper behaviour. Back then, only humans could pick Paladin as a class, so for my elderly stern Sun-elf it was a big deal, finding that he shared more values with the human, than a fellow elf.
All be it a moon-elf, which was how he justified it all to himself.

In the novels about the recapture of Myth Drannor, the Sun-elves high priest, the name escapes me, talks with his daughter about the challenges of ruling over different types of elves.
He explains that they, as Sun-elves must remember that the qualities in their cousins that a sun-elf finds most troublesome, is in fact exactly what makes them elves. Somewhere along the way, he argues, the Sun-elves forgot this, in their constant quest to be the perfect elf, Corellions chosen.

All in all, I say go nuts playing a lawful Sun-elf. They are great fun, although I know it was easier back in the day where picking a sub-race had no bearing on stats ect in regards to making a certain build work


I miss 2.edition