Pale Master Summons

[Rinzler]

I have some questions/suggestions regarding Pale Master summons:

From an RP perspective, how difficult would it be to convert this to an animal companion or familiar slot? That way, Pale Masters could select from various options (vampire, skeleton, zombie, etc.) and have the ability to name their companion to be a bit more personal.

From a mechanical perspective:

• Conjuration focus grants +1 HD.
• Greater Conjuration focus grants a total of +2 HD.
• Epic Conjuration focus grants a total of +4 HD.

That's +7 HD to a large list of available summons.

Meanwhile:

• Spellfocus Necromancy: +1 HD
• Greater Spellfocus Necromancy: +1 HD
• Epic Spellfocus Necromancy: +2 HD

That's +4 HD to only undead summons.

I guess my suggestion is that if you're a level 10 Pale Master with ESF Necromancy, your undead summons should get at least +7 HD which would be equal to conjuration. Perhaps even more HD, as you're much more limited in your choice of summon in addition to your summons being taboo (and killable by other PCs) in a majority of areas on the server. Another suggestion might be that the level 10 Pale Master Summon Slot combined with ESF Necromancy could be used as a "True Name" summoning feature but only for undead creatures.

Idk, just some thoughts.

Cheers

[EasternCheesE]

To my knowledge, epic conjuration focus grants total of +4 hd, so there is no +7 to summon HD from this line if feats.
As of other part of suggestion, i will reread it tomorrow to see how things are currently vs what you propose.

[Rinzler]

Yes, the feat itself grants +4 but greater focus conjuration gives +2 and focus conjuration gives +1 (Total +7).

Necromancy is +1 +1 +2 when you finally get ESF (total +4). Which I can confirm is accurate based on my Pale Master Cohort with 20 HD (16 +4)

Also, not sure if it’s intentional but neither GMW nor Weapon of Impact works on the cohort.

[EasternCheesE]

Unless something was changed since i tested it, spell foci don't stack in terms of summon hd. Having epic spell focus (which is impossible to have without sf and gsf) offers +4 to summon HD total, it overwrites previous ones. Maximum summon hd bonus available is red wizard + epic spell focus which gives +5 hd.
https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Summoning
I remember making a table for conjured creature stats and it was a thing back then.

[Rinzler]

I guess I'm reading it wrong?

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Summoning

[Kitunenotsume]

Both do the same thing:

Base: +1
Greater +1 (stacks with Base for a total +2)
Epic: +2 (stacks with Base/Greater for a total +4)

[EasternCheesE]

Author of that wiki page used different terms to describe same thing, i believe that created your confusion about it. Maximum HD bonus in both cases is 4+1 if going red wizard.

Speaking of making it animal companion/cohort and true names is interesting and, i believe, needs further discussion on pros-cons.
Necromancers are indeed limited on their summons, but pale master does also get a number of features other classes don't get: immunity to sneak attacks, death touch, dark vision, bone skin, fort saves.

[Rinzler]

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.

[Endelyon]

I can understand why that's confusing the way it was worded.

[Rhifox]

Pale Master summons do not currently gain benefits from spell focus feats and would probably have to be nerfed if that was changed, as they are already the strongest summons in the game.

Nor do I think they should go on a companion/cohort slot for the same reason (though I think this is more doable), though I do think the greater undead ability should be made 'permanent until dismissed' like cohorts, as by lore a pale master's highest level ability is a cohort rather than a summon.