Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I would like to see Swashbuckler get use of light shields (but not heavy or tower) to help new characters going for the swash/duelist build in those early levels. After all, it's IN the name.

From The Columbia Journalism Review's Language section

"the origin of “swashbuckler” as coming “from combining a sense of the verb swash ('to act in a blustering and bullying manner') with the noun buckler ('a small round shield held by a handle at arm's length').”

How to let Swash use light (1 ac) shields but not heavy? We can already equip any shield and a script checks if we have the appropriate feat and imposes penalties if we don't have the appropriate feat. Just make the script not impose those penalties if the base item of the shield happens to be light and the character has at least one level of swash. No reworking of the class needed. Maybe just put a note in the Wiki that swash can use a light shield without penalty, but incurs penalties for heavy or tower unless they have the appropriate feat via other class or "buying" the proficiency feat.

Note that duelist AC still won't work with a light (or any other) shield equipped. This is mainly for those early levels where another 4 ac from a light shield +3 from Mudd would be a huge help. It would also help my main (i'd lose 1 ac and about 10 levels from RCR but I'd get a feat back), but I only say that for transparency's sake.

Green Monster wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 10:34 am I would like to see Swashbuckler get use of light shields (but not heavy or tower) to help new characters going for the swash/duelist build in those early levels. After all, it's IN the name.

From The Columbia Journalism Review's Language section

"the origin of “swashbuckler” as coming “from combining a sense of the verb swash ('to act in a blustering and bullying manner') with the noun buckler ('a small round shield held by a handle at arm's length').”

Shield Dwarves then should be half shield, half dwarf, full beard.

Aspect of Sorrow wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 2:45 pm

Green Monster wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 10:34 am I would like to see Swashbuckler get use of light shields (but not heavy or tower) to help new characters going for the swash/duelist build in those early levels. After all, it's IN the name.

From The Columbia Journalism Review's Language section

"the origin of “swashbuckler” as coming “from combining a sense of the verb swash ('to act in a blustering and bullying manner') with the noun buckler ('a small round shield held by a handle at arm's length').”

Shield Dwarves then should be half shield, half dwarf, full beard.

Sarcasm noted.

Heater shields don't seem really that functionally different from bucklers. I guess if you could use one with duelist int ac you'd see bucklers more often. As it stands there's not much use for bucklers besides low enough asf. -1 to parry or -2 to parry isn't really a difference worth considering unless parry was made into a stance that blocked more than 3 attacks.

Young Werther wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 6:15 pmI guess if you could use one with duelist int ac you'd see bucklers more often.

Which can't be implemented without plugins, or turning it into regular Dodge AC (and thus subject to the Dodge cap - kind of a nerf, considering duelists are one of the few builds capable of hitting it).

As it stands there's not much use for bucklers besides low enough asf.

Their low ACP means they offer a minimal penalty for untrained use, too. And, IMO, we have more good-looking bucklers than we do heavy/tower shields.

-1 to parry or -2 to parry isn't really a difference worth considering unless parry was made into a stance that blocked more than 3 attacks.

Assuming you can consistently riposte, I've actually found Parry shockingly effective in combination with Sembian Fencing or Athkatlan Tripartite (basically any style that limits you to 3 APR). You lose no AB, nor any attacks you wouldn't already have lost (unless you're hasted), and you get a mountain of AC exceeding what you'd get by combining CE5 and FD. One duelist utterly demolished Lin during the Selmiyeritar tournament by putting up an unbreakable guard and riposting her into oblivion; in a later fight, Lin's inability to simultaneously get good AC and good AB resulted in her being trounced by another combatant despite cheesing the duel by turning invisible and casting every buff in her spellbook, and a subsequent rematch in Soubar had her win (if only narrowly so) by spending the whole fight riposting.

Used by a duelist, the mode is basically perfect for melee PvP and bossfights, IMO, and I'm already planning a few equipment upgrades (and a level 29 feat choice) that'll greatly improve the reliability of Lin's ripostes.

EDIT: Back to the original topic, I think Rhi might've meant to give swashbucklers buckler proficiency before she left. I'll raise it internally.

I see that in the 3.5 D&D they are indeed only given buckler prof. as Rhifox was big on source book integrity.

Young Werther wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:59 am I see that in the 3.5 D&D they are indeed only given buckler prof. as Rhifox was big on source book integrity.

Source, please? D&DTools lists them as having light armor proficiency and losing class features when wearing medium or heavy armor, but makes no mention of shields in any way. Rhi wanted rogues and swashbucklers to have buckler proficiency because she felt they were an important part of some of the associated archetypes, but I'm not aware of her having backed it up with PnP sources.

(Not that this is likely to have much of an impact on the QC discussion.)

https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Swashbuckler, ... .5e_Class)

I made the assumption this was a legit source
I'll let you decide.

Edit NVM it says homebrew right there.

Green Monster wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 10:34 am I would like to see Swashbuckler get use of light shields (but not heavy or tower) to help new characters going for the swash/duelist build in those early levels. After all, it's IN the name.

From The Columbia Journalism Review's Language section

"the origin of “swashbuckler” as coming “from combining a sense of the verb swash ('to act in a blustering and bullying manner') with the noun buckler ('a small round shield held by a handle at arm's length').”

How to let Swash use light (1 ac) shields but not heavy? We can already equip any shield and a script checks if we have the appropriate feat and imposes penalties if we don't have the appropriate feat. Just make the script not impose those penalties if the base item of the shield happens to be light and the character has at least one level of swash. No reworking of the class needed. Maybe just put a note in the Wiki that swash can use a light shield without penalty, but incurs penalties for heavy or tower unless they have the appropriate feat via other class or "buying" the proficiency feat.

Note that duelist AC still won't work with a light (or any other) shield equipped. This is mainly for those early levels where another 4 ac from a light shield +3 from Mudd would be a huge help. It would also help my main (i'd lose 1 ac and about 10 levels from RCR but I'd get a feat back), but I only say that for transparency's sake.

I'm just trying to understand why the basis of this suggestion is for the name of the Class. A Swashbuckler is not a break down of each word. A Swashbuckler is and I will pull from Meriam Webster

swashbuckler
noun
swash·​buck·​ler ˈswäsh-ˌbə-klər ˈswȯsh-
1
: a swaggering or daring soldier or adventurer
2
: a novel or drama dealing with a swashbuckler

Yes it is vague on the use of a shield but real definitions are bringing brought into a discussion of a Class that is already described in the BG Wiki and D20SRD

The swashbuckler embodies the concepts of daring and panache. Favoring agility and wit over brute force, the swashbuckler excels both in combat situations and social interactions, making her a versatile character indeed.

Here is the D20SRD

This is an agility fighter, they are not meant to carry shields their protection is in their speed. Even a light shield [Buckler] can get in the way of what they wish to do. They are not meant to be knowledgeable with shields unless you want to take the feat that makes your character so, to be rid of the penalties. Yes, everyone can equip anything as anyone can hold an object. It does not mean you know how to use that object well to the best of its capabilities with your own.That is where taking the feat comes in or why certain classes have it already.

I know this is just a few points but the theme of the Class is being lost for gain, to my understanding at least.