Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

My crafting character has 8 cleric levels, 5 wizard levels, 5 master alchemist levels (wizard progression), and 8 mystic theurge levels (wizard progression). With Practiced Spellcaster Cleric and Practiced Spellcaster Wizard feats. So my caster levels should be Wizard 26 (5 wiz + 5 ma + 8 mt + 4 mt boost + 4 practiced spellcaster) and Cleric 16 (8 cleric + 4 mt boost + 4 practiced spellcaster). But they're not.

As a caster level 16 cleric my casting of Bless Water should create a flask of greater holy water. It does not. It creates a flask of improved holy water like a lvl 10-15. Master Alchemist Brewing is also capping every divine elixir at CL 12.

As a caster level 26 wizard my invisibility spell should last 26 minutes and it does, so that's good. But Master Alchemist Brewing is capping all my arcane elixirs at CL 22.

This isn't an issue with MT, it's an issue with Master Alchemist. All crafting feats that I know of do not make use of custom CL bonuses. Eg, my blood mage scars/droughts don't count my Blood Component CL.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:26 am This isn't an issue with MT, it's an issue with Master Alchemist. All crafting feats that I know of do not make use of custom CL bonuses. Eg, my blood mage scars/droughts don't count my Blood Component CL.

If it wasn't also an issue with MT my casting of Bless Water would produce greater holy water instead of improved. Unless the spell description is wrong.

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:18 pm

Rhifox wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:26 am This isn't an issue with MT, it's an issue with Master Alchemist. All crafting feats that I know of do not make use of custom CL bonuses. Eg, my blood mage scars/droughts don't count my Blood Component CL.

If it wasn't also an issue with MT my casting of Bless Water would produce greater holy water instead of improved. Unless the spell description is wrong.

It’s that Master Alchemist doesn’t recognize the MT bonus (or any bonus from another class that’s custom), not that the MT bonus doesn’t work.

Rinzler wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:41 pm

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:18 pm

Rhifox wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:26 am This isn't an issue with MT, it's an issue with Master Alchemist. All crafting feats that I know of do not make use of custom CL bonuses. Eg, my blood mage scars/droughts don't count my Blood Component CL.

If it wasn't also an issue with MT my casting of Bless Water would produce greater holy water instead of improved. Unless the spell description is wrong.

It’s that Master Alchemist doesn’t recognize the MT bonus (or any bonus from another class that’s custom), not that the MT bonus doesn’t work.

What does master alchemist have to do with my casting Bless Water? I wasn't making a potion or elixir of Bless Water, what the heck would be the point of that?

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Bless_Water

Master Alchemist Brewing is also capping every divine elixir at CL 12.

Master Alchemist does not know that you have increased caster level from MT when you're creating the elixir.

Rinzler wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:22 pm

Master Alchemist Brewing is also capping every divine elixir at CL 12.

Master Alchemist does not know that you have increased caster level from MT when you're creating the elixir.

Yeah, I get that one custom class unique to this server is not recognizing the CL from another custom class unique to this server. So why is my casting of the Cleric spell Bless Water, which has nothing at all to do with Master Alchemist, producing a CL 12 result instead of a CL 16 result? If you don't know, you can just say "I don't know".

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:28 pm

Rinzler wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:22 pm

Master Alchemist Brewing is also capping every divine elixir at CL 12.

Master Alchemist does not know that you have increased caster level from MT when you're creating the elixir.

Yeah, I get that one custom class unique to this server is not recognizing the CL from another custom class unique to this server. So why is my casting of the Cleric spell Bless Water, which has nothing at all to do with Master Alchemist, producing a CL 12 result instead of a CL 16 result? If you don't know, you can just say "I don't know".

I have no idea why you're being so aggressive but it probably is because cleric doesn't recognize it either when creating a consumable.

Cleric Level = 8
Practiced Spellcaster = 4

8 + 4 = 12

Rinzler wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:32 pm

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:28 pm

Rinzler wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:22 pm

Master Alchemist does not know that you have increased caster level from MT when you're creating the elixir.

Yeah, I get that one custom class unique to this server is not recognizing the CL from another custom class unique to this server. So why is my casting of the Cleric spell Bless Water, which has nothing at all to do with Master Alchemist, producing a CL 12 result instead of a CL 16 result? If you don't know, you can just say "I don't know".

I have no idea why you're being so aggressive but it probably is because cleric doesn't recognize it either when creating a consumable.

Cleric Level = 8
Practiced Spellcaster = 4

8 + 4 = 12

I'm not intending to be aggressive. I'm trying to be clear because you've repeatedly mentioned Master Alchemist when I was asking about an issue that doesn't involve master alchemist. I'm sorry if it seems aggressive. I get frustrated when I'm not being understood. Aggression isn't my intention. Clarity is. I apologize.


So, anyway, you think that the MT CL is not being recognized by any item creation system? When I have free time later tonight I will test cleric CL by timing a spell that lasts I minute per CL, like I did with my Wiz CL.

If MA will never recognize MT CL, then that's a bummer because I've completely wasted my time on this character. A significant amount of time. It means this character will never be able to produce CL 30 elixirs which was my goal in making this character: One character to make arcane elixirs of CL 30 and divine wands. If I had known that two classes made for this server wouldn't recognize each other's CL, I would have made a lvl 30 wiz or sorc and given my FS character craft wand. *sighs* I give up.

[edit] Couldn't a function be added to the script for making MA elixir to check for MT levels and adjust the top CL of elixirs accordingly? We are talking about two classes over which the dev team has total control.

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:43 pmSo, anyway, you think that the MT CL is not being recognized by any item creation system? When I have free time later tonight I will test cleric CL by timing a spell that lasts I minute per CL, like I did with my Wiz CL.

Correct. As I said, our item creation systems don't take into account custom CL bonuses from any class.

My theory is that this is probably because item creation functions come before CL calculation in our spellhook.

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:28 pm

Rinzler wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:22 pm

Master Alchemist Brewing is also capping every divine elixir at CL 12.

Master Alchemist does not know that you have increased caster level from MT when you're creating the elixir.

Yeah, I get that one custom class unique to this server is not recognizing the CL from another custom class unique to this server. So why is my casting of the Cleric spell Bless Water, which has nothing at all to do with Master Alchemist, producing a CL 12 result instead of a CL 16 result? If you don't know, you can just say "I don't know".

Per the script, the CL12 result is the CL16 result. Greater Holy Water is CL17 onwards. I don't know whether it's the script or the description that's incorrect.

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:43 pmCouldn't a function be added to the script for making MA elixir to check for MT levels and adjust the top CL of elixirs accordingly? We are talking about two classes over which the dev team has total control.

The spellhook is one of the most convoluted scripts written for BG. Looking at it, I have some notion of where the relevant code is, and where I might need to move it to make it respect Shadow Adept/Hierophant/Archmage/Red Wizard/Feytouched/Mystic Theurge caster levels... but between the fact that Rhi reports Blood Component is being ignored (it shouldn't be, from what I'm seeing here) and the fact that I only investigated it for like 10 minutes right now, I don't dare make a change of that magnitude lest it break something else.

(Incidentally, Rhi's theory is correct - item creation happens before CL calculation.)

If item creation occurs before custom CL calculation and there's no way to change that, is there any chance of my getting a 100% RCR on my character Vanessa Applewhite so I can rebuild her to be able to make CL 30 elixirs when she gets to lvl 30? If this isn't fixable the best she'll be able to do is CL 25 elixirs and that wasn't my intention when I made her.

Current build plan = 9 cleric, 6 wizard, 5 MA, 10 MT w/ practiced spellcaster in both base classes. Which would have been CL 30 wiz and CL 18 cleric. But if MA is never going to recognize those 5 MT odd-level boosts then elixir CLs will be CL 25 wiz and CL 13 cleric. Not good enough.

If this elixir CL issue can't be fixed, I would deeply appreciate a 100% rcr so I can rebuild to 4 cleric, 16 wizard, 5 MA, 5 thaumaturge. If it can be fixed, I'm happy to keep my current build. I do not expect an answer to whether or not it can be fixed right away. Get back to me in a week or two? I know you have other issues that affect more people.

Update: My Cleric CL is 16 right now as it should be when it comes to just casting spells. Timed the duration of a summon. So as Dalolorn pointed out either the script for Bless Water is wrong or the spell description is.

The character is still broken, though, because I made her to be able to make CL 30 elixirs when I get to lvl 30 and there's no way to do that now unless either MA can account for MT cl boost or I rcr.

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:30 pmIf item creation occurs before custom CL calculation and there's no way to change that

It can be changed.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:48 pm

Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:30 pmIf item creation occurs before custom CL calculation and there's no way to change that

It can be changed.

Awesome! I'd rather keep my current build if it can be fixed so that her elixir CLs match her casting CLs