RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

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Donny
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RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

Unread post by Donny »

Hello,

I've been playing the insane Karl Kane on-and-off for a while now. I was wondering if players who encountered the crazy feylock have any feedback for me. I find it very challenging to play insanity, so I'd like any and all feedback you have!

General tips and tricks on roleplaying insanity are also very welcome!

Of course, if you met Karl and thought everything was awesome, you are very welcome to share your positive feedback too :lol:
I can take that as a "gimme more of that!" type of feedback.

Thanks for your time and effort!
Karl Kane. Insane in the Karl Kane.
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Ashenie
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Re: RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

Unread post by Ashenie »

Hello there,

I have not had the pleasure to play extensive scenes with you but I can only agree that "insanity" can be really hard to play.

What in my perspective can help is to define insanity, how it manifests, when, and which psychological traits can be assiocated or developped from insanity. Finally, in the Forgotten Realms, some type of insanity can be healed, so keeping that in mind could help as plot hook perhaps.

What kind of insanity do you play with your character?

Thanks for sharing,

I hope you will have a great experience in any case,

Cheers,

Ashenie
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Donny
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Re: RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

Unread post by Donny »

Thank you for your reply Ashenie.

The type of insanity I'm going for is schizophrenia. His RP is inspired on the Malkavian clan from Vampire: The Masquarade, with a hint of Delirium from the Sandman comics. He's seeing and hearing things that may or may not be there, and will often speak gibberish.
Ashenie wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:57 pm What in my perspective can help is to define insanity, how it manifests, when, and which psychological traits can be assiocated or developped from insanity.
Thank you, this is indeed very helpful advice! Currently, the insanity manifests pretty randomly, and as indicated, it's mainly schizophrenia > seeing, hearing and saying random things. However, if, based on what I've told so far, you have other good ideas on this subject, then I'd love to hear it!
Ashenie wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:57 pm Finally, in the Forgotten Realms, some type of insanity can be healed, so keeping that in mind could help as plot hook perhaps.
Since Karl's insanity comes from a fey pact, I think that the only way to heal it would be breaking the pact. But Karl idolizes the fey to which he's pacted, so that is unlikely to happen ;-)
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Ashenie
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Re: RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

Unread post by Ashenie »

Hello there,

That sounds interesting to me!

I do not have the reference you are taking about, but I undersand somehow what you are going for. Schizophrenia is very difficult to play proplery. There is sometimes a deep confusion between imagination and reality, which indeed can result in hallucinations. In all matters of mental health, it can be important to think that it's always more a spectrum than a defined condition. It's more, or less, and can depend on circumstances.
I can only encourage you to read more about mental health and schizophrenia.

Hallucinations can be accepted or fought, can be part of him or considered as stranger. And part of him can become a stranger to himself. And perhaps everything at once, at times. Perhaps defining further how he defines these voices, how he defines their origins, perhaps their role can help build a whole psychology.
This can evolve in mystic delirum, persecution, or some kind of personality split.

Delirum and mental health work great as a whole system. And sometimes, a system that is closed to everyone else but your character. Perhaps submitting it to Dungeon Masters would work well too, so you can also work from their feedback.

In any case, I wish you good luck with that, and I hope you will have fun!

Cheers,

Ashenie
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Tantive
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Re: RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

Unread post by Tantive »

I've yet to encounter your character, but heres something more to consider.
Ashenie wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:38 am
Hallucinations can be accepted or fought, can be part of him or considered as stranger.
To add, how far is he aware of his own delusions? And in a social setting, is he answering them despite the possibility of getting strange looks or is he intently aware to act normal among people. I've known a handful of people who were quite in different camps, one continuously bothered barely getting rest during the day and the other actively engaging in them even amongst a social setting.


There is also a game, Hellblade: Senuas Sacrifice which can offer you additional inspiration on how your character experiences things.
Remember that the characters emotive systems are quite attached during these episodes. You probably are not a passive observer of your auditory and visual halucinations like you would a film.
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Re: RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

Unread post by paragon_nemesis »

The type of insanity I'm going for is schizophrenia. His RP is inspired on the Malkavian clan from Vampire: The Masquarade, with a hint of Delirium from the Sandman comics. He's seeing and hearing things that may or may not be there, and will often speak gibberish.
Malkavians can be very fun to play, but also very tricky. Especially with this type of splash to it. Even though I haven't met your character, I think I can offer some assistance here as well.

Something my brother and I came up with back in 2.0 Masquerade was to come up with our own charts when we play a Malky. What we would do is add dice rolls to this chart, and give it some random elements adding to the flavor of the character. Since it's a D10 system. We would essentially roll the chart up to 10d10 and depending on how many successes, or failures would depend on the outcome of the current mental episode that could be had. For example if it was someone with multiple personalities, then depending on what was rolled was what personality was driving at the time.

This also helped establish personal bounds and rules to make the rp feel a lot tighter. It allowed us to really focus on the going on's around instead of trying to focus and think of things for the character. Although at times of course it was more pragmatic to be more selective in what would be happening.

Anyway. Hope this gives you some ideas.
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Fire Wolf
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Re: RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

Unread post by Fire Wolf »

I don't know enough to give anything specific to your character, but as someone who played an insane character for many years, I can offer some of what I learned personally.

I found that it can be easy to slip into the mindset of needing to be more convincing, especially if you encounter characters who choose not to believe that your character is actually insane.
So if that happens, my advice would be to avoiding trying to "prove it". Just stick to what you'd normally do and don't play it up purely to show off that he's actually insane. I found out that makes it less convincing, unfortunately. :lol:

Secondly, I'd say it's important to remember that underneath whatever strangeness is going on with him, that he's just a person who happens to have a condition that causes all of these issues, rather than the insanity being the absolute focus of everything that he is. Even if that condition is caused by the fey rather than being a regular mental illness.

And also, as already mentioned here, it's good to have some guidelines on what his limits are for what he would actually do. Or if he's the type of character with apparently no boundaries, to have an idea of what exactly pushes him to be like that so there's some sort of reason for it.

Also, as purely a personal preference thing, I don't find characters who walk around bragging about how insane they are, cheesy villain style, to be particularly convincing as actual insane characters. Not saying you do that, since I wouldn't know! I just thought I'd throw that one in anyway since I've seen it before.

But this is just my opinion on it. I hope you have fun with this character!
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Donny
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Re: RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

Unread post by Donny »

Thank you all for your very good advice, questions and experiences! This helps me a lot.

To answer something that came along a couple of times, he is not aware of his own hallucinations, and will actively engage with them in social settings (though this is something I still need to practice RPing a bit more).
He's also not aware of his own insanity, so telling others he's insane will definitely not happen ;-) He's often so far in his own mind that he is unaware of how strange the things he says and does actually are. Telling him about it would probably also be met with some sort of paranoia, where you are the crazy one, not him.
Tantive wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:10 am There is also a game, Hellblade: Senuas Sacrifice which can offer you additional inspiration on how your character experiences things.
Remember that the characters emotive systems are quite attached during these episodes. You probably are not a passive observer of your auditory and visual halucinations like you would a film.
Thanks for the tip. I've never played Hellblade, but might give it a try.
Could you expand a bit more on the second part though? What exactly do you mean with being attached to their emotive systems, and not a passive observer?
paragon_nemesis wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:00 pm Something my brother and I came up with back in 2.0 Masquerade was to come up with our own charts when we play a Malky. What we would do is add dice rolls to this chart, and give it some random elements adding to the flavor of the character. Since it's a D10 system. We would essentially roll the chart up to 10d10 and depending on how many successes, or failures would depend on the outcome of the current mental episode that could be had. For example if it was someone with multiple personalities, then depending on what was rolled was what personality was driving at the time.
That's a really good idea. Currently I have made a little tool that I dubbed the "Gibberish generator", that I'm continuously expanding on. It feeds me random sentences and gibberish, and I'm still working on forming better sentences, for it to make at least a little more sense. But perhaps something with an added dice-system that defines his current mental state would be nice.

Also a nice touch on what personality was driving at the time. Though I personally don't think I'll be going the multiple personalities route with Karl.
Fire Wolf wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:39 pm I found that it can be easy to slip into the mindset of needing to be more convincing, especially if you encounter characters who choose not to believe that your character is actually insane.
So if that happens, my advice would be to avoiding trying to "prove it". Just stick to what you'd normally do and don't play it up purely to show off that he's actually insane. I found out that makes it less convincing, unfortunately.
Haha, I can imagine. Thanks, that is good advice, and definitely something to keep in mind :lol:

Thanks for the other tips as well, they are definitely good things to consider, and keep in mind.


Thank you all for taking the time to write things up. It really helps me further form the character, and add some method to the madness, so to speak :lol:
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Re: RP Feedback request: Insane in the Karl Kane

Unread post by New Me »

After giving this a LOT of thought, guess I passed on will save (some might know what I am talking about), and I decided to chime here with few of my observations and warnings, as it also involves about my character a bit as well, kind of. Not wanting to hijack this tread, I will post things about my character behind the spoilers, but is mostly there to give a bit clearer picture on what I am talking about.

I would also call out to as many players out there, to share their opinion, as well, so that both you Donny, and me, and everyone else in similar situation would get some insight on how people perceive this.

Starting with a spoiler, some ooc there, readers be advised:
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While my character is not insane, there are several mental issues involved. This is something I would call "troubled" RP, and it can really be troubled to RP.
Calling this a "troubled" RP, it can put a strain on both the PLAYER RPing mental issues, as well as the PLAYERS that you would RP with. I would say most people would prefer relaxed RP, and feel the most comfortable with it, but there is just something alluring with troubled RP.

Again, possible spoilers here, readers be advised:
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In case of my character, I made several rules on her creation, keeping track on how things would go in game. To keep it simple, when things went well, she would be in better mood the next day. When things got worse, she would be worse etc. Those were "short" terms differences, but there was a hidden "long" term counter in the background, that might have never been triggered at all, depending on how things would happen in game. So, now she is the way she is, and she will or will not get better, depending on her in game interactions.
The greatest problems with "troubled" RP would be in interaction with others. (caps are for emphasis, not yelling :naughty: )

First one is how other CHARACTERS perceive you, some might not want to be in your presence, for various reasons, from having bad memories from past, not carrying, or just have some sort of hate or fear from "crazy" characters. This would be IC thing only.

Second one is how PLAYERS perceive you, and this one can be more complicated. Now, I do think everyone here wants to have fun and be respectful to others, but playing "troubled" RP is bound to put you at odds with others, as sometimes, your CHARACTERS decision will NOT be the same as YOU would want them to be. Finding a limit there can be hard, in keeping the balance but still keeping it true to your character and remaining respectful. In my case, if our characters were to meet, and things would go badly, I would attempt to send a tell explaining at least a bit about the reasons. Here, I would put this ahead of immersion, even if some PLAYERS would not like that, and I know at least one person that feels the same way as I do, so, :hand: high five to that person, and everyone else that feels the same way, and, :ugeek: respectful nod to others. Some PLAYERS could be just uncomfortable with that kind of RP as well, for personal reasons or just don't like that kind of play. We are all just humans IRL, and sometimes we will miss on things that could hurt others, so is best to be prepared to that, as well.

With that said, I would also say it is a high risk - high reward situation, things would often go not the way YOU would want them, leading to something of a fiasco. In my case, when things would connect just right, it led to the most AMAZING RP episodes I ever had, making it worth the trouble. So, I say, go for it!

Next, on emoting crazy and other things. Personally, not only that I do not mind excessive emote, I actually prefer it. Why? There would often come a situation in a crowd, especially in dangerous areas with many people involved, when you don't have enough time to read everyone description in details, and some can be quite long. Emoting there gives much clearer picture off the bat, about what your characters is like, especially on the first encounter, or if there was some drastic change, for whatever reason. (Here, I would add, dark does not necessarily means evil :naughty: , but how CHARACTERS would perceive that would remain on them to figure out.) It might irk some PLAYERS, yes, so be prepared for that, if you would take that route. Taking Monk, the detective from TV show, as an example of clear mental disorder, that would probably require a lot of emote, and still would count as plausible. At what level of "crazy" to play, I can't say as I am struggling with that myself at times (I later added a part on that below)! But, I say, go for it!

Next, you mentioned your "crazy" be involved with fey pact, and that he is unlikely to brake it. That is perfectly fine, but I would advise you to think of at least one way how that could happen, certain chain of events that could lead to that, and see if them would happen! But, finally, it is your decision, on how and in what direction you want to play.
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In my case, I am completely open minded. Depending on how things would go, I made a range of drafts, for her, to become anything from paladin to blackguard, from saint to ruthless murderer, from happy store keeper to cold blooded mercenary, from just what she is now to even perma death. Of course, I want her to keep on the grey light side of things, but, hey, I do not make the rules here :lol: .
Last thing I could think of as an advice, one that could backfire at times though, is similar to what others said. When ever I am in doubt on how my character would react on certain questions or situations, I make a random dice roll for DC, usually 3d20 (for level 30 character), then try to beat it with Will save roll, as this is mental thing, with passing the roll giving better result. Kind of a way of DM-ing yourself. Not sure how that could relate to schizophrenia, maybe just to see at what level would you go "crazy" at that time, but there, just a thought. Adding randomness to mental issues kind of make a lot of sense, to me at least, and... um... even if random unexplained rolls could also annoy some people, as well, maybe, so would be good to explain them as well.

Long read, and I probably forgot about few things I wanted to say as well, but I think I said most of it.

See you on the Coast, have fun!

Started writing before your latest post, so Edit, and yes, spoiler:
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"He's also not aware of his own insanity, so telling others he's insane will definitely not happen ;-) He's often so far in his own mind that he is unaware of how strange the things he says and does actually are. Telling him about it would probably also be met with some sort of paranoia, where you are the crazy one, not him."
I know exactly what you mean!
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