Vague Scry

[Flights of Fantasy]

I mentioned in my guild's discord that it seems like half the players online are hiding their location lately. I was told this is because there have been increased instances of metagaming. So I'm suggesting the scry be changed to a more vague system like Sundren had.

I don't know the full in and outs of how it was set up, but essentially their scry just pulled up a list that only showed maps with some or more activity. Example, if two PCs were at FAI, it would say FAI has some activity. If it was between three and five, it would say there is a fair bit of activity. Five or more would then say there is a lot of activity.

The scry did not provide any more information than that, no player character names or levels. It gave you an idea where players were on the maps but not exactly who was there. This should make it easier to find roleplay without allowing for metagame stalking using scry.

[selhan]

If the issue was people worried of meta scry, that system your mentioning could still be used for meta sry. Only takes someone patience and determination to comb all the public maps.

I'd simply send a Tell if they open for rp.

Old player list use to tell if someone was in the map, but that was changed because many didnt like that. People like their privacy or they dont want to be meta found and prefer random encounters. Some hide because they doing something shady or they dont want to be bothered. Best way is simply asking in a tell. Works for me. Also, linger in an area where you likely gonna see a passerby. I've seen some ppl screaming for Rp but their up in their faction halls lol . Just when someone is looking for rp, someone else is doing the same, but their shown location is no suitable for them to go there for what ever reasons.

[Flights of Fantasy]

That's like saying there's no point fixing a broken pipe because it will break again eventually. This would still improve the situation. At the very least they would have to actively search rather than instantly knowing.

As a side note and to play a bit of devil's advocate, being able to completely mask your presence in the world is also slightly metagaming. There are hunters and trackers. People leave traces, clues, or are noticed by casual bystanders. The general activity in an area would not be so hard to discern.

Now, if the staff wants to, they could put in additional scripts so that PCs that are actually hiding in stealth mode do not contribute to this scry unless it is done by a PC with high enough skills in survival, search, etc. They could also mask areas that require specific code words, locked behind a puzzle, or just too far removed from prying eyes.

That's up to them. But a basic vague scry as I described would help significantly. It would at least make it more difficult for abusers and easier for players just wanting to know where to go to find other to roleplay with.

[JustAnotherGuy]

I personally like having the person's exact map displayed. For me, if my scry is displayed, it means I don't mind people looking at scry and coming to me. If I'm in RP that I don't want interrupted, I hide my scry. Conversely, if I'm looking for RP, I'll use the scry to see where people are. If they are in public zones I have a reason to head towards (FAI, etc) I'll just head there. If they are in an out of the way area, I'll send a tell to the player, asking if they mind if I make my way there.

Our server is very large, and if there aren't very many people on at some point, RP can be difficult to come by naturally. Our scry system helps to facilitate more RP.

On the subject of this, and somewhat tangentially related, there are some players who seem to always have their location hidden, or completely unlisted on scry. Somewhat ironically, I've heard a couple people who are always hidden on scry complain about a lack of RP! There are many legitimate reasons to hide one's scry. Perhaps they are doing "cloak and dagger" RP, or perhaps they simply don't want to be bothered for some reason; play the game the way that is fun for you, after all. But I would urge people to show themselves on scry as much as they can. "Scry sniping" isn't always a bad thing; it can lead to more RP.

[selhan]

He paints a good point and I myself have see it. People complain about lack or no RP yet they the ones always hidden or hold up in their guild halls .

On the main topic its quite plain and simple, People HIDE from scry for a REASON. And people SHOW their scry for a READON.

SO..others SHOULD RESPECT their very REASONS. Someone can easily put a "LF RP" status just as freely as someone "HIDE" from Scry.

That's like saying there's no point fixing a broken pipe because it will break again eventually.

Its more so ..dont try to fix something thats not broken.

Your very own PC, as much as I have seen on scry is 90% in Elf Town. The lack of various rp your having, might be because you dont get out much Versus someone like me, where many dont come over to where I hang out, due to rp reasons or another and for me hey Im fine with that. No complaints. But something like that would be a complaint for someone else. Basically what Im sayin is, whats a problem for you may not be a problem for someone else. So be mindful when asking for certain changes. The many rules on his server that ALOT of people do complain about comes from this very sort of stuff.

Enjoy your gameplay by all means to your hearts content, and Im serious to that and do hope you get a fun experience. But please don't go ruining my gameplay at the expense to that.

Like today The Druids held the Equinox. I went not because I see 90% of the server there, I went because a PC invited my PC. People have their own play styles.

[Kitunenotsume]

I mentioned in my guild's discord that it seems like half the players online are hiding their location lately. I was told this is because there have been increased instances of metagaming. So I'm suggesting the scry be changed to a more vague system like Sundren had.

I don't know the full in and outs of how it was set up, but essentially their scry just pulled up a list that only showed maps with some or more activity. Example, if two PCs were at FAI, it would say FAI has some activity. If it was between three and five, it would say there is a fair bit of activity. Five or more would then say there is a lot of activity.

The scry did not provide any more information than that, no player character names or levels. It gave you an idea where players were on the maps but not exactly who was there. This should make it easier to find roleplay without allowing for metagame stalking using scry.

I will point out that the Sundren system could be opted out of (and often was requested by DMs during events). This enabled players to hide from the activity-tracker, so it wasn't a manditory system any more than BGTSCC's Scry function.

Sundren also had functional implementations of Locate Creature (and appropriate counterplay by Nondetection) that allowed for learning someone's position through in-character means.
From prior discussions I have seen among the BGTSCC community, there is no administrative interest for adding Locate Creature due to concerns related to metagaming and potential OOC exploitation.

[Flights of Fantasy]

That's like saying there's no point fixing a broken pipe because it will break again eventually.

Its more so ..dont try to fix something thats not broken.

But it is broken. Players hiding their location because other players are metagaming their location is clearly an issue. I can't say for sure whether or not that is the reason for all players hiding their location, though I can say it was the first thing that was suggested when I asked about the situation in guild chat.



This is two screenshots I took of the scry earlier today. Out of the twenty people online, only seven (including myself) were sharing their location. Take that as you will. Maybe I just logged in a bad time, but those bad times are becoming more frequently as of late. My immediate response was to log off and find something else to do.

[selhan]

Okay, speaking as a player and I will only speak for myself because everyone else has their reasons and not all maybe the same.

If I myself hide from scry, below is the following possible reasons...

1, I don't want to be disturb because might be in a focused Rp.
2, Doing something like OOC muleing, semi afk working on the toolset
3, Dont want to be meta found / meta scry because I might be doing something up to no good or shady stuff.
4, I'm hunting someone or someones hunting me and I dont want to make it easy for them nor do I want them to see me coming.
5, Prefer random encounter RP over *Oh Diamondhearts at FAI I gonna go there to RP with them* ((I dislike conjuring up reasons))
6, Someplace I shouldn't be, like venturing off in the Underdark tunnels where drows can beeline to me and pop my butt with poison bolts or worse.
7, Dont want my fiancé Netanya to see I'm flirting with Boots. ((Just a joke)) But never know!
8, Dont want a dozen people asking me in tells what Im doing in Elf Town, Darkhold, UD, or someone's bathtub. And rather save such questions for IC.
9, Or I'm out mindlessly loot running solo to get some quick coins so I can hurry and get back to some Rp.
10, Or I just might had simply forgot to go unhidden from scry.


I can keep on goin with reasons but these are just some of mine. Again I cant speak for others. Looking at your screen shot, I can tell you for a fact, 1 of those players that was hidden was with me and another player whom both of us wasnt hidden. Why were they hidden, I dont ask that, to me thats their business. But Prior to that, I sent them a Tell ((Hey me and such is about to venture on the other server, if you aint busy wanna join?)) Reply came back ((Sure!)). If they were busy or not up for it, they could have simply told me so and I would had simply said "okay.".

Sometimes too much rp is a thing. It happens. For me between trying to keep up rp with 4+ people while having been active on the Toolset puts some strain on my hands. Some people may notice, I've RP Less behind the bar, and thats a prime reason of that. I've had more time than I can remember where I got 5+ people to interact with for hours, and foolish me, was thinking more so to provide the activity and neglecting the tingling sensation in my hands. But tingling sensation grew into pain, thats what told me to slow it down.

Meta knowledge ruins Rp, and a lot of times, people dont purposely with ill intent mean to meta. ((Tho some do)) A lot of times its people not being mindful or paying attention. But those Oops and Hiccups that were not intentional can really ruin a persons RP, gameplay etc. So for people like me, I much rather send you a tell and ask "Hi up for rp?" then stage a meet rather than *I suddenly appear on your doorstep, and your asking me, how the hell I know you were home, and then I need to figure out how the hell to explain that.*

But please dont mistaken me and feel I'm attacking you. I'm just trying to share with you some of the reasons people prefer not to be meta found or seen by that scry. The old Player list use to do that. Go to an area press P and you know whos there. Next thing you know someone's looking , zigzagging the whole map looking for you. BG did away with that. I've brought players from other servers here and some of them got tired of some ppl logging in and beelining straight for them from the nexus every time. They felt that was cringy. One time I went to DA cause I was looking for Elf Rp, next thing you know , I got Tom (person) and Harry , Betty and Bootsie suddenly popping up right behind me, one after the other when I just wanted to rp with one player.

Having options to hide serves its purpose. Having the ability to send "Tells" is an option.

[Ghost]

I might be doing something up to no good or shady stuff.

You? Never!

In truth, however, Sel is correct. If someone is trying to do some intrigue discussion in, say, the the blushing mermaid, and then people can see "Three people in blushing mermaid" on a scry that cannot be hidden, this is going to attract people artificially to that location for no IC reason.

[Flights of Fantasy]

While that is a fair point, adjustments could be made such as requiring skills rolls or implementing "back rooms". The character pays the barkeep some extra coin and gain access to a room that is not privy to the public. Being in such locations automatically hides you from the vague scry. And again, since it's a vague scry, you only know what areas are active and to what degree. You don't know who or why, which also adds some risk in snooping.

Edit: And as an add on to the backroom idea, it could be set so that the first person that enters controls who can enter after them and remains that way until they leave the back room.