Stealth Icon

[selhan]

The Dumb Ugly Icon should just be removed period, go back to Vanilla Stealth, less glitchy, less ugly.

1, Its down right ugly/cartoony = remove it
2, Immersing breaking = remove it
3, change it where that stupid icon only shows up on the spotters screen, lets those that cried for it be the one to deal with it on their screen. = if not remove it

[JustAnotherGuy]

The Dumb Ugly Icon should just be removed period, go back to Vanilla Stealth, less glitchy, less ugly.

1, Its down right ugly/cartoony = remove it
2, Immersing breaking = remove it
3, change it where that stupid icon only shows up on the spotters screen, lets those that cried for it be the one to deal with it on their screen. = if not remove it

I am adamantly opposed to removing the stealth icon. It helps both the stealther and the spotter. The vanilla way of handling it is that if you are spotted, the spotter has zero idea that you are even in stealth. I have accidentally given away a lot people in stealth before the icon. Emoting things like, "He nods to x", and suddenly everyone knows that x is there, in stealth.

The icon is extremely helpful, and much less immersion breaking than it appearing some person walks up randomly without the spotter even knowing that they are trying to hide. I would rather have an icon than having to /t every known sneak as they walk up, "Are you in stealth?" as I had to do previously. Again, way less immersion breaking than it was before it was implemented.

[MissClick]

The icon is an indication of the roleplay people don't do and/or emote due to metagaming potential (crouching low, treading carefully, distributing weight, moving slow, approaching cautiously) thus, the symbol offers a visual cue to represent what someone witnessing an act of stealth would be able to logically perceive or discern (but isn't described).

It should not be removed, unless there is some other discernable way to identify that a person approaching is stealthed. When sneaking, it's far from a waltz upon a conversation in a manner indistinguishable from a jaunty stroll. And, if the intention is to hide in plain sight (as an act, not the ability) then being unobtrusively immsersed in one's surroundings is the superior option and does not require use of the stealth mechanic.

(Keeping in mind, also, that anything other than an overhead icon (such as VFX) may obscure other notable details like physical features or attire).

[RoseFrost]

I have argued at length about why the icon should be removed. It's ugly, awkward, and clunky as it can appear and disappear with a significant delay. It's supposedly for the benefit of stealthers, but I've yet to meet one who wouldn't get rid of it in a heartbeat. It's meta-gamey, because it reveals a character's intent (something which occurs inside their head), when detect vs. stealth is merely meant to answer 'do you see them?' Is the person lying down in the tall grass trying to hide from you? Or are they taking a nap? You shouldn't know, but on BG you do.

All of that is immaterial because it doesn't work reliably. Can it be awkward to spot a stealther without realizing it? Maybe. IMO any stealther that just walks up completely in the open and stands next to people is kind of phoning it in. Hide in a bush, around a wall, behind a barrel.

Now consider how awkward it is to walk up to a group of people, all of whom mistakenly believe they have detected you trying to spy on them. Your char doesn't tend to initiate conversations, so they just stand there waiting to be greeted. Everybody assumes they've spotted a sneak but they don't want to reveal that they've noticed so they continue on as normal. Now your character is marked as some kind of spy, even though they aren't, and you don't even know.

[Oarthias]

Now consider how awkward it is to walk up to a group of people, all of whom mistakenly believe they have detected you trying to spy on them. Your char doesn't tend to initiate conversations, so they just stand there waiting to be greeted. Everybody assumes they've spotted a sneak but they don't want to reveal that they've noticed so they continue on as normal. Now your character is marked as some kind of spy, even though they aren't, and you don't even know.

This... so much this. To be marked as having spied on a conversation when you were not in fact in stealth has a harsher RP consequence.

[Deathgrowl]

I agree the icon needs to be removed. Or rather, the effect needs to be something that is less blatantly immersion breaking.

Stealthing is an active action, not a passive one. If you're sneaking, you're doing it on purpose and that is what a perciever (spotter or listener) is detecting. You're not being idle while in stealth, so yes, there is a degree of potential to discern intention (though obviously not the entire intention).

That said, as a player of a shadowdancer myself, I find the icon is immersion breaking as all hells. I'd rather have a more subtle, but visible effect (like for example a vfx skin or something), rather than a floating icon above the head. This is chiefly for spotters anyways, since detection by the listen skill already only shows a silhouette of the detected sneak, so it's easy to tell that they are in fact sneaking.

So we do need some way for spotters to tell that the one they are detecting is actively stealthing. But it needs to be less glaring.

[Ewe]

Guys can you help me understand? I thought the icon was so I can understand if I spotted someone or not. Because people just phase in or out with hips and there’s no way to tell if I am supposed to rp them as hiding or not when my character should be able to know. If we remove the icon we need to at least inform you of your spot or listen check success somewhere?

[Lockonnow]

uh i see ugly people help me

[MasterSilke]

There should definitely be some kind of mechanical indicator that a player has spotted another character that is in stealth as said by others for the purpose of RPing appropriately. If there are existing bugs that make the icon display longer than it ought to, by all means that should be corrected if possible. But I don't believe the icon should be immediately thrown out before it is either corrected or an alternative mechanical indicator is coded.

[Ewe]

I just think it's equally as immersion breaking to be standing in an open field with bright sun and having hips people fade in and out around me with zero RP. So it goes both ways, imo. It's a little frustrating to claim that the old way was somehow a bastion of immersion.

[Snarfy]

Life time sneak here.

The previous stealth/detection mechanics were awful to non existent... imagine tip-toe'ing around with 80 - 90 in stealth and someone (usually a bard/druid/ranger/anyone that knows how to invest in spot/listen) starts chatting you up because they had no visual indicator to let them know their toon had detected yours. Awkward AF, and made you want to headbutt your screen.

The current version at least has it's merits: the sneak appears shadowy and/or translucent. The icon is gross, yes, but at least it helps differentiate from a character being invisible while you have detect invis etc active.

So we do need some way for spotters to tell that the one they are detecting is actively stealthing. But it needs to be less glaring.

As I recall, having crouching-sneaky animations appear for the opposing player is/was not workable. I would be tempted to advocate for an indicator in the combat log for the spotter/listener, but that runs the risk of accidental meta if their screen is zoomed in or otherwise panned away from the sneak and the player otherwise would not have noticed them with their actual eyeballs. Apart from that, the only thing I can think of is a type of VFX along the lines of Deez' barrier, albeit nowhere near to the point where the sneak is an incomprehensible blur.

[JustAnotherGuy]

I could agree with something else being implemented rather than the icon. However, I am absolutely opposed to going back to the complete immersion breaking vanilla state. There needs to be some kind of visual indicator that the spotter would 100% see, that isn't shown mechanically.

[JustAnotherGirl]

As someone who has played a stealthy toon, I appreciate the icon. I no longer have to send a /t to let people know I'm in stealth. That was more immersion breaking to me than having the icon.

As a ranger who can spot quite a few sneaks, it's very helpful for me to know I've spotted a toon in stealth so I can respond in RP appropriately. Again, this is far less immersion breaking that remembering a toon can stealth and having to send a /t asking them if they are stealthed or not.

I personally have not noticed my icon being very delayed in either going into stealth or leaving it. I have noticed it seems to linger after I break stealth, but only for as long as the cooldown of the stealth itself.

I am not opposed to the icon being changed to something else, but I feel we need something that enables everyone in RP to know whether or not they've spotted someone who may be stealthed for whatever reason. Having the icon has only helped my RP on both sides of it.

[selhan]

Look, if spotters need some ugly ass Icon on my characters head to identify if Im hiding or not... fine "PUT IT ON THEIR SCREEN" not on mine is what I'm saying.

Repeat- Spotters want the icon? cool beans make it where its on the spotters screens. Not on mine because I damn sure didnt ask for it, nor wanted it, nor agree to it and after a year of it, I'm still sick of seeing that damn thing either on my character or when I'm seeing it on other characters. Its down right stupid ugly , cartoony , f'up screen shots and no, I aint got the time to photoshop the damn thing out, besides why must I be the one that have too, when I didnt ask for the damn thing to begin with. In the past it was brought up about making a better icon, or something else in replacement. I really dont see how ppl couldnt tell the difference to begin with. If I spot you, your clear as day visible to me. And its a simple emote to follow *Eyes glances over towards the figure standing in the bushes* SPOTTED If I only hear you, then your a shade looking image to me *Looks left towards the sounds of movement* HEARD WHY IS THAT HARD? I DONT FREAKING KNOW!

I see this as nothing but a "Hate on Hipsters" scenario. Ppl can rant about other class mechanics and things get changed/fix within a few days to a few month. All the players that play a hipster that had to deal with that damn icon, post about dislikes, seeing how its a reoccurring unpleasant thing to the see , has been swallowing the issue over a year!

A better Icon?
A system Message?
On the spotter screens only?
Something more creative or cooler?
Something by Houdini or something?
ANYTHING But that f'ugly turd thing that literally bugs the shite out of me every damn time I see the damn thing!

AND STOP FREAKING GENERALIZING ALL SNEAKSTERS! Theres some dumb ones out there, its down right offensive.

Extraordinary Ability (Ex) HiPS: The Ranger and Wilderness Stalkers' HiPS are 'Extraordinary Abilities'

Supernatural Ability (Su) HiPS: Shadowdancers, Assassins, and Rogues (indoor HiPS) have a version of HiPS which are 'Supernatural Abilities'

[RoseFrost]

There needs to be some kind of visual indicator that the spotter would 100% see, that isn't shown mechanically.

We should also put a big eyeball icon above any character that is in Search mode. In the vanilla game there is no way to tell the difference between someone who is just standing there, and someone who is carefully looking around for sneaks. Obviously there needs to be some kind of visual indicator, since there isn't actually an animation to indicate that someone is carefully looking around.