Plant Domain update request

[TheKai]

Good day,

I'd like suggest adjusting the Plant domain slightly so it better reflects the identity of the 3.5 Plant domain.

Current Plant Domain: https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Plant_(domain)

In 3.5, the Plant domain includes Animate Plants, Control Plants, and Shambler at higher spell levels. Since BG does not have Control Plants or Shambler, I propose the following:

Remove Summon Creature IX and replacing it with Animate Plants. Replacing Summon Creature IX with Animate Plants would make the domain feel less generic. Summon Creature IX is a useful spell, but it is not uniquely tied to the Plant domain; it reads more like a broad summoning option. Animate Plants is much closer to the domain’s core identity because it directly represents commanding and awakening plant life. That makes it a more faithful thematic replacement, especially since the original 3.5 Plant domain already includes Animate Plants.

Remove Mass Camouflage and replace it with either Commune with Nature or Tree Stride. The main reason for removing Mass Camouflage is that, aside from the name, it does not strongly represent plant magic. It feels more like a general stealth/nature spell than something tied directly to plants. Commune with Nature or Tree Stride would better support the domain’s identity without changing the overall purpose of the domain.

The goal is to make Plant domain feel more distinct and more clearly centered on plant-based magic.

**Edit made to correct verbiage

[Ithilan]

As someone playing a character with the plant domain every day, I would be really sad to see that change to the domain, unless you make the summoned plants as viable as the IX summons.

Having IX summon on level 8 is fantastic, as it allows you to extend it as a level 9 spell, this change would mechanically change my build entirely. And whilst I do not want that to be an argument for or against, playing a summoner is a finicky balance in many places with very few options.

So whilst I embrace immersion and roleplaying additions, id like to know these shamblers are not as worthless as half the summons and will just die to the first two spawns in an epic dungeon.

Would it not be a better compromise to include these plant summons in the other summon lines? And would it at all be possible to look at summons in general, there are no alternatives to running a hound archon and elder fire elemental in 99,9% of the server areas, outside of named summons from Dusty Tomes. It has been brought up before, the general stance was very much "learn to play". So before we get hit by a nerf bat from an immersion change, id like to know that I dont trade my essential summon for a withering plant on the windowshelf.

Edit: Do we even have any animate plant spells? And how would it line up with replacing a level 8 spell, it should be a spell of the appropriate level granted from the domain selection too.
I also want to urge that we consider how Pen & Paper functions and how a persistent online world functions. Having X or Y spell in PnP is usually clever, as the scenarios requires different tools. I try and mirror this in game too on most characters, but we can not deny there is a big difference between memorizing a consecration, an augury and so on, vs stacking up all your extended divine favors and so on.

Mechanically something like "control plants" that is the correct replacement, would be useless, simply because we do not have any plants on the server outside of Shambling Mounds and Treeants in the Cloakwood and Sharp Teeth. Making viable choices is to me more important than a sliver of immersion that will never be relevant in mechanical terms and will see a roleplaying function once a decade.

TLDR: Buff summons so RP choices for changes make sense in general.

[TheKai]

Good morning! That is a fair concern, and I do not want this suggestion to come across as asking for an immersion change that would functionally nerf existing Plant domain characters.

After thinking about it more, I agree that replacing Summon Creature IX is probably not the right approach. If that spell is important to current Plant domain summoner builds, then removing it would create a mechanical problem, and that was not the intent of the suggestion.

A better compromise would be to have Animate Plants replace Liveoak instead.

To answer the question about whether Animate Plants exists: Animate Plants is a 7th-level druid spell with two functions. It can either summon 3 mid-HD mix of treants and shamblers or it can function more like a higher-level entangle control spell for casters (albeit under the Transmutation School). So it is not just a cosmetic RP spell; it has an actual mechanical role.

That is also why replacing Liveoak makes more sense than replacing Summon Creature IX. Liveoak and Animate Plants are both already operating in the same general theme: animated or awakened plant life. Animate Plants is simply the closer match to the actual Plant domain identity, while Liveoak seems to be serving as a substitute for that missing theme.

I also agree that the summoned plants would need to be viable. I am not suggesting anyone should trade a useful spell for something that dies immediately in epic content.

So my revised suggestion would be:

Keep Summon Creature IX where it is.

Replace Liveoak with Animate Plants.

Still consider replacing Mass Camouflage with Commune with Nature or Tree Stride.

The intent is not to disrupt existing builds, my apologies if it came off as such.