Random 2H-wielded Sword Idea

[Ambaryerno]

Randomly joked about this in the Drown thread, but liked the idea and thought I'd start my own so it's on-topic.

Ideas for two new Fighter feats when wielding a sword 2H. This would only apply to longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords, and both would function as combat modes (so turn on/off):

1) Mordhau

The character grips the sword with both hands on the blade, and delivers their attack at standard AB. On a successful strike it inflicts crushing damage on the target with a damage penalty.

2) Halfsword

The character shortens up his grip on the sword, with one hand on the blade. AB is increased and he inflicts piercing damage on the target with a damage penalty.

This would apply only to longswords, bastard swords and greatswords, and only when they are being wielded two-handed. They could be set to have one of the Weapon Focus feats as a prerequisite.



Animations optional, it's just a little bit of German Longsword to spice things up.

[Mythrandor]

I think this is a good idea..... if the wielder also takes dammage and has a negative modifier to his Int..... for grabbing the blade of his weapon....

[magus_taliesin]

I think this is a good idea..... if the wielder also takes dammage and has a negative modifier to his Int..... for grabbing the blade of his weapon....

Why an intelligence penalty? You can grab the blade of a sword without worrying about cutting yourself as long as you don't slide your hand on the blade. Even better if are wearing gloves or gauntlets. I can grab the blade of any of my swords, daggers, or knives with a bare palm on the cutting edge and not hurt myself. Some of my kitchen knives, and one of my pocket knives are razor sharp, people who handle blades all the time are quite aware of how to do it without hurting themselves and that includes handling the blade.

by the way, I like the idea.

[Ambaryerno]

I think this is a good idea..... if the wielder also takes dammage and has a negative modifier to his Int..... for grabbing the blade of his weapon....

As magus said, this is COMPLETELY possible without injuring yourself, even barehanded (and lightweight leather gloves are all the protection you really need).

[Ambaryerno]

Maybe, but:

1) By changing modes you don't have to use an action switching out weapons when in combat (which IIRC, swapping out weapons DOES require one if you're in melee, but Modes can be turned on and off without doing so). Would be great if you needed to change between different damage types in the middle of a fight.

2) ANY sort of feat that provides an increased AB is a MAJOR boon to fighters. Both other modes (Combat Expertise and Power Attack) reduce your AB, which at times can kind of suck

Finally, I'd like to suggest this modification:

Mordhau: Base damage is equivalent to a mace (1d6)
Halfsword: Base damage is equivalent to a spear (1d8)

The Fighter receives all their AB, Damage, and Critical bonuses as they normally would for that weapon, (in other words, a greatsword wielded in Mordhau or Halfsword is still considered a greatsword as far as feats are concerned) PLUS any AB\Damage from the weapon's enhancement bonus, and benefits from other enchantments and material types. Characters with Weapon Master feats also benefit as normal from all their bonuses with that weapon.

So look at it this way...

A Longsword Weapon Master encounters a skeleton. He puts up his longsword +3 and whips out a mace +3 instead. He can now no longer benefit from:

Ki Damage
Ki Critical
Increased Critical Multiplier
Superior Weapon Focus

He AND a fighter would also lose any bonuses from Weapon Spec/Focus and Improved Weapon Spec/Focus, Power Critical and Improved Critical for that particular weapon.

NOW allow that Longsword Weapon Master to use Mordhau to turn his +3 longsword into what is effectively a +3 mace.

Does it still seem so useless now?

[muffinFBSL]

Would you actually take these feats if they existed, Ambaryerno? I am leaning towards not... They're neat I guess, and I want variety too, but this sounds excessively time-intensive to implement, and would be very seldom used.

[Ambaryerno]

Actually, yes I WOULD.

Consider you're a non-Epic Greatsword WM with all WM feats, Weapon Focus and Spec, Greater Focus and Spec, Power Crit and Improved Crit. You decide to switch from your Greatsword to a Mace:

-3 Attack Bonus
-10 damage (-4 from feats, -6 from base damage--2d6 vs. 1d6)*
-4 Critical Threat Range
-4 to confirm Critical
-1 Critical Multiplier

Now use your Greatsword in Mordhau, you lose:

-6 damage (base damage reduced to 1d6)**

* This does NOT include reduced damage from loss of the 2H STR modifier. If the character in question has 20 STR, his penalty would actually be -12 damage, since a Mace is 1H and loses the additional bonus from being used 2H.

** Since the character is still wielding 2H, he receives the STR bonus for doing so.

With some enemies having high DR--or outright immunity--against certain types of physical damage (I dread ever running into oozes....) this could be a BIG deal.

[nuthouse2k]

Would you actually take these feats if they existed, Ambaryerno? I am leaning towards not... They're neat I guess, and I want variety too, but this sounds excessively time-intensive to implement, and would be very seldom used.

this...

[Ambaryerno]

you can't even crit a skeleton anyway...

and perhaps this is a more interesting example

attacking a DR 10 skeleton with a greatsword:
-10 damage
-3 Attack

attacking a DR 10 skeleton with mordhau
-6 damage
costs 1 feat

Keeping that extra AB is worth that feat. You'd also have a net gain of +4 damage using a Greatsword with Mordhau over switching to a Mace or just dealing with the DR.

[nuthouse2k]

how do you get -3 AB from attacking normally with a greatsword?

[Ambaryerno]

Sorry, I misread that. I thought he was talking about the damage loss of attacking with a Mace (which WOULD also sacrifice AB since you would no longer have the bonuses from the Weapon Focus feats).

But the point is, retaining that extra AB WOULD be worth the feat when combined with the better damage against DR.

[magus_taliesin]

while cool, would be totally useless - you might as well swap to another weapon...

Ah, but what about a cleric, or paladin like the one I used to play that only used his deity's favored weapon...a greatsword? Also some players aren't just looking for skills and feats that are useful all the time, some of us like the idea of specialized abilities that add to RP and story.

[magus_taliesin]

so then you can just hit them with your greatsword and say you're doing some special technique...

Saying you are doing some special technique, and actually getting the benefits of said technique are two different things. If that cleric comes into contact with an opponent that is more susceptible to bludgeoning damage then he should be able to gain the benefits of an attack style that he would realistically use.

[Ambaryerno]

Also some players aren't just looking for skills and feats that are useful all the time, some of us like the idea of specialized abilities that add to RP and story.

I'd love this for the RP especially. My main character is a longswordsman, and I've been wanting to see a game that more accurately depicts how these swords were actually used for a long, LONG time.

[Kaedrin]

It's not. You guys are way too dreamy about what is possible in this game's engine, especially from the outside looking in. Mad Hatters indeed.