Maecius wrote:
One of the main arguments I have always heard leveled against our PVP rules is that it forces the initiator to give up initiative: if you have to set someone to hostile and make it clear that you are about to attack them, you are not getting off that first spell, or that sneak/death attack, or those first four attacks in the opening round.
People do understand that initiative is the ability to react to an imminent threat, right? By setting someone else to hostile and allowing them a moment to understand what is about to happen, initiative rolls are made and it is exactly the same as the combat system for PVE. Why do people think its ok to circumvent this for PVP's sake? Its cheap and incredibly unfair for the person who gets attacked without first being set to hostile, because essentially the attacker gets off all their first round attacks on a person totally un-responsive to the fact that there is an attack happening. Game initiative rolls simulate the ability of the individual to try to dodge the first few swings or perhaps even quickdraw and get a shot in before the assailant can.
In short, I don't care that the initiator loses that free round of attacks, simply because getting that free round is totally unrealistic and unfair to the assailee. Who would sit there and let you have 4 free chops without responding in some way (dodging, defending, fighting back..etc..)? Its not like you are setting up PVP by RP when you are totally concealed (which, by the way, is impossible by definition)
Eowiel Le'liana - Formerly Respected Councilor/Citizen of Doron Amar, now Disrespected Free Agent Merry Angalagaleil - Strongheart Halfling Sacred Fist
maybe i should add a "attack" option to my quickbar as you click hostile and then the "number" to attack. a spellcaster can do that with a spell. Its about reacting fast, have the mouse, or finger over the action you want to take. If i have been in a situation where it seemed it might lead to PvP, i have done what i could, to be ready. Same in RL, sometimes you have to react fast. I agree, that it can be a pain if you want the "fast attack" or element of surprice. But the rules are there for a reason, or else it would go bad
The game engine has accounted for that reaction, except in multi-player where by default all characters are friendly until otherwise marked. The problem comes when people don't allow the engine to do the initiative rolls and just go ahead and take a free set of swings at someone whose only defense is to hope their ping is good at the moment. If the game engine is used as it should be, then there is no way for the attacker or attackee to complain that it wasn't done right.
Eowiel Le'liana - Formerly Respected Councilor/Citizen of Doron Amar, now Disrespected Free Agent Merry Angalagaleil - Strongheart Halfling Sacred Fist
If you set someone to Hostile, it may not appear immediately on the other person's screen. There may be a bit of a lag, ESPECIALLY if you set to Hostile and then immediately attack!
From the attackers point of view they clicked Hostile and then launched an attack.
From the defenders point of view, they will see your entire first round of attacks and THEN the hostile warning will pop up. This will lead to lots of accusations and anger.
The basic rule should be, if any encounter MAY end up with PvP, you should set to hostile. (Setting to Hostile is an OOC action, and nobody should feel that they now have a "right" to attack you because of it). Most aggressive encounters don't end up in PvP, but if we get people used to the idea of setting to Hostile does not mean "PvP is going to happen", it just means "I am hostile"
Also, people with familiars and companions should get used to the concept of putting your follower on "Guard" so they don't auto attack someone who sets you to Hostile.
Alison "the Harlequin" Schlump: Human Jester
A thousand years of torture rule,
The knave who dares to harm a Fool
-Fool, Christopher Moore
If you set someone to Hostile, it may not appear immediately on the other person's screen. There may be a bit of a lag, ESPECIALLY if you set to Hostile and then immediately attack!
From the attackers point of view they clicked Hostile and then launched an attack.
From the defenders point of view, they will see your entire first round of attacks and THEN the hostile warning will pop up. This will lead to lots of accusations and anger.
The basic rule should be, if any encounter MAY end up with PvP, you should set to hostile. (Setting to Hostile is an OOC action, and nobody should feel that they now have a "right" to attack you because of it). Most aggressive encounters don't end up in PvP, but if we get people used to the idea of setting to Hostile does not mean "PvP is going to happen", it just means "I am hostile"
Also, people with familiars and companions should get used to the concept of putting your follower on "Guard" so they don't auto attack someone who sets you to Hostile.
Good thinking. Pay attention to this, people.
"A man is only as old as the women he feels." -Groucho Marx.
This is how I usually handle a case when PvP might happen.
First when the threats, namecalling, etc is taking place I set to hostile.
I don't attack right away but I set it to hostile and let the RP continue.
Many times the RP continues in such a way that I can unhostile and walk away.
The thing about setting to hostile is that it is not a clear defintion you will attack, but rather it is a way to allow a fair game mechanic to come into play. If someone swings their sword, you as a person are going to react fairly quickly. In game terms if you do not have hostile on, your character is going to stand like a drooling idiot while someone beats on them for a bit.
The biggest thing to remember is that if you get beat in PvP, who cares? Have you lost anything other than maybe a little pride? The only time you should really be upset is if someone is harrasing you with PvP, like attacking you without warning, allowing no outs, PvP with no RP motivation, etc.
Walking up and randomly PvPing people is a lot like griefing, you have to make a balance between RP and game. Remember this is supposed to be fun for everyone involved. After a PvP match you should talk to one another about it and make sure there are no hard feelings afterwards. Shake hands, thank one another for the RP and PvP, and continue on with the game.
Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
What seeds have you sown in the garden?
people also have to remember that setting to hostile is an ooc mecanic, which have also been stated by the staff. I just fear by doing that, my opponent will use it as ooc info
mute83 wrote:people also have to remember that setting to hostile is an ooc mecanic, which have also been stated by the staff. I just fear by doing that, my opponent will use it as ooc info
I cant help but laugh when someone attacks me when i set them hostile, i run around yelling OMG he attacked me, call the Fist he just tried to murder me! Then they can look like morons for the next 20 min while they explain why they attacked the guy who was disagreeing with them
Rhys Feivra-Sun elf, wizard
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
Edgar Allan Poe
mute83 wrote:people also have to remember that setting to hostile is an ooc mecanic, which have also been stated by the staff. I just fear by doing that, my opponent will use it as ooc info
I cant help but laugh when someone attacks me when i set them hostile, i run around yelling OMG he attacked me, call the Fist he just tried to murder me! Then they can look like morons for the next 20 min while they explain why they attacked the guy who was disagreeing with them
I generally see this type of thing when people from DEX come over to give RP a try. I do realize some people aren't as of yet accustomed to our rules on the server, but I ususally PM them and say "Hey, relax guy!"
However, there are those that don't give a rats ass and just hack/slash away.
"Seriously, the Maw?"Cazna Sshamath "Dhaerrow, I will kill you then I am going to kill that little witch Yathrin you are leashed too.Le'alvath Greenbow
mute83 wrote:people also have to remember that setting to hostile is an ooc mecanic, which have also been stated by the staff. I just fear by doing that, my opponent will use it as ooc info
I cant help but laugh when someone attacks me when i set them hostile, i run around yelling OMG he attacked me, call the Fist he just tried to murder me! Then they can look like morons for the next 20 min while they explain why they attacked the guy who was disagreeing with them
... and now they might be wanted for attemtet murder. Nice. clevery done ... just hope they dont kill you right away
mute83 wrote:people also have to remember that setting to hostile is an ooc mecanic, which have also been stated by the staff. I just fear by doing that, my opponent will use it as ooc info
exactly, well this would make it easier for me, especially if there are more than 1 opponent, i have to set hostile to each of them, just hope they won't attack while I am doing it. Hmm, at higher lvl I will set it as soon as I meet someone (haha). In fact he should not know my intentions. But it is obvious he will... You will not change it since it is something allowing the pvp. When you set to hostile the person mechanically thinks whether to kill you or better avoid pvp action.
Asparin Ravenwood, Human Acquisition Specialist Xarak Shadowstalker, A recently "enlightened", former assassin of Malar the Beastlord Gaedynn Coldstone, Frostfolk Icemage
as you click hostile and then the "number" to attack. a spellcaster can do that with a spell. Its about reacting fast, have the mouse, or finger over the action you want to take. If i have been in a situation where it seemed it might lead to PvP, i have done what i could, to be ready. Same in RL, sometimes you have to react fast. I agree, that it can be a pain if you want the "fast attack" or element of surprice. But the rules are there for a reason, or else it would go bad
... and now they might be wanted for attemtet murder. Nice. clevery done 
