Epic sorcerer , spell list

[Gruk]

hello , i have a level 25 sorcereress and i was wondering if i would get one chance eventually to change some spells.

i didnt multiclass thinking staying sorcerer all the way would allow me to keep switching spells evry two level but it stopped at 20.

Its not dramatic , by level 20 i had manage , i beleive, an efficient spell list for my environement, the spells i would like to switch are mostly low levels and more for RP reasons then actual power ...

magic misle (1) would switch to ray of enfeeblement ( necro)
rainbow blast ( 3) would switch to the dark energy ray or burst ( new necro)
some spell (4) would switch to enervation (necro)

my question comes with the coming , or noticing of the new spells dark energy burst and dark energy ray wich would fit so much more with my char then rainbow blast even if the two spells are equivalent DC and dam wise .

it would be cool to repick them once between 20 and 30. But if sorc spell list locks at 20 to bad so sad its like that , i can live with it . It just , it'd be cool if not.

[TalonofWindspeak]

I'm not sure if this could even be changed, it is probably hard coded, I remember somewhere there is even some kind of bug if you multi-class. I know my mage with maxed intel can only pick 2 spells per spell level progression, I think that is due to my base class not being a mage? Regardless a generalist mage can easily add those new spells in.

Sadly, not so for a Sorcerer. Hey are you not already powerful enough ? Just kidding, that's why I don't like the Favored Souls and Sorcerers so much, they force you to pick and lock in, when I want it all..

[Eldebryn]

I'm not sure if this could even be changed, it is probably hard coded, I remember somewhere there is even some kind of bug if you multi-class. I know my mage with maxed intel can only pick 2 spells per spell level progression, I think that is due to my base class not being a mage? Regardless a generalist mage can easily add those new spells in.

Actually that's how it goes for wizard and wizard-like spellcasting progression. You learn 2 spells / level from research, rest is up to you ;P

[TalonofWindspeak]

I'm not sure if this could even be changed, it is probably hard coded, I remember somewhere there is even some kind of bug if you multi-class. I know my mage with maxed intel can only pick 2 spells per spell level progression, I think that is due to my base class not being a mage? Regardless a generalist mage can easily add those new spells in.

Actually that's how it goes for wizard and wizard-like spellcasting progression. You learn 2 spells / level from research, rest is up to you ;P

I seem to recall picking oodles of spells on appropriate levels, based on intelligence modifier? Perhaps this is a module setting?

Sorry not to get off topic from the original poster on this, maybe pm with the info as I'm not recently researched on this.

Main thing is I can add spells like you say, but a sorcerer gets no chance to add in new spells introduced to the server, which is disappointing.

[Krazy]

I seem to recall picking oodles of spells on appropriate levels, based on intelligence modifier? Perhaps this is a module setting?

Nope, only Wizard level 1. It's something like 4 + Int mod 1st level spells, otherwise always 2.

Re sorcs, no way to change no you're past level 20 casting short of a severe de-levelling.

[Blackman D]

hello , i have a level 25 sorcereress and i was wondering if i would get one chance eventually to change some spells.

i didnt multiclass thinking staying sorcerer all the way would allow me to keep switching spells evry two level but it stopped at 20.

Its not dramatic , by level 20 i had manage , i beleive, an efficient spell list for my environement, the spells i would like to switch are mostly low levels and more for RP reasons then actual power ...

magic misle (1) would switch to ray of enfeeblement ( necro)
rainbow blast ( 3) would switch to the dark energy ray or burst ( new necro)
some spell (4) would switch to enervation (necro)

my question comes with the coming , or noticing of the new spells dark energy burst and dark energy ray wich would fit so much more with my char then rainbow blast even if the two spells are equivalent DC and dam wise .

it would be cool to repick them once between 20 and 30. But if sorc spell list locks at 20 to bad so sad its like that , i can live with it . It just , it'd be cool if not.

sorc spell swap stops at CL 20, ive brought this up a few times before and kaedrin made it possible for them to swap in epic levels after i did, tho it was never added to BG

if you wanted to swap spells with the way it is now you would have to get a complete relevel and pick the ones you intend on keeping

if anyone tries to tell you that it is bugged, its not, ive also tested that a while ago on the server, a few of your lower level spells will be locked in and you wont be able to swap them till you could swap spells for that level normally, but mid and high level spells will be empty so you will be able to swap everything out just fine, but getting the DMs to let you do it might be your problem, i asked if sorc spell swap could be allowed for a relevel a while ago after testing it also but got no reply so idk

[Krazy]

sorc spell swap stops at CL 20, ive brought this up a few times before and kaedrin made it possible for them to swap in epic levels after i did, tho it was never added to BG

Yeah, but he did it by adding an extra spell/level 1st through 9 which brings up the spell selection gui, which in turn lets you swap swells.

It would make sorcerors signficantly more powerful.

[Blackman D]

not particularly since they have limited spells anyway

nwn1 was a lot more sorc friendly since you could swap every level which was my argument for it, there are a lot of people who have never played one before, or a new spell gets added and for a sorc you never will have the chance to get that spell, but if you do and you dont like it now you cant get rid of it

nwn1 was nice for noob/experimenting sorcerers since you could more or less "test run" a spell for a level that you are unsure of, with the way it is now you more or less need to know exactly what to take at what levels from 1-20 or you are screwed, which takes a lot of fun out of the class since you have to follow a set list like a religion

[Krazy]

Not particularly? I think getting to pick 4 spells from levels 6 through 9, lessens the pain of choosing quite a bit if you ask me! Giving them 9 extra spells to allow spell swapping past 20 makes sorcs alot more powerful.

I have no objection to increased spell swapping, but is there a way to do it without Kaedrin's fix and gaining extra spell picks?

[Blackman D]

oh right that, i forgot he gave them extras to get it to work

yea idk if its possible without doing it that way or not

or... the staff could simply let sorcerers relevel after 20 if they need it...

[Gruk]

more spell known would be neat and it would make the sorc more powerfull but not by much i think ... more ressourcefull but not more powerfulll,

but in my opinion spell swaps wouldnt change much since there's sill a max spell known ... maybe a few low level spells usefull low level could be swaped for more usefull later on but i dont feel it'd make a radical edge to sorc.

spells pick level 9 as it is dont get one swap , the three you pick are it , to have a few test runs swaping shadow silmutarcum for mordenkain or somthing wouldnt change much since a spell of equal power is always given up in echange. But personally i wouldnt change them : level 7 , 8 and 9 spells you only get three picks , depending on you specializations the choices are almost obvious , cant swap any of those.

so theres really just the lower spells , wich sorc have a few more known that could be fun to swap a bit or at least once between 20 and 30 .

again , not a critical topic here lol , just looking to expand my game play and trying the new spells that are offered on BG would be cool .

[Simian]

The thing is, you can always ask for a de-level; 'Hey DM, kick me down to level 12. Chop-chop.' (You can say the same thing in a more polite manner; '/d Hello, is there any Dungeon Masters online? I would like to de-level my character down to level 12 and I am standing in Nexus. I would appreciate if it could be done as fast as possible, just kick me down and I'll be able to do things on my own. ')

But the issue is that when it takes place, you unlearn spells in an order based on when you took them.

For example, you have four level two spells and these were taken in the following order;
1) Cloud of Bewilderment: Stuns and blinds enemies for 1d6 rounds.
2) Combust: A single target takes 2d6+1/level fire damage and has a chance of catching fire.
3) Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
4) Fireburst: An small fiery explosion deals 1d8 damage to nearby creatures.

If you want to get rid of Cloud of Bewilderment, it would mean you would have to de-level to a point where you knew zero second level spells. Now if the DM you asked to do it, is sensible, he or she might kick you back up around the level you originally were, but you should not tell anyone about it.

And as for Kaedrin's fix for Sorcerers and other spontaneous spell casters,

Not particularly? I think getting to pick 4 spells from levels 6 through 9, lessens the pain of choosing quite a bit if you ask me! Giving them 9 extra spells to allow spell swapping past 20 makes sorcs alot more powerful.

I'll be frank and say you are simply wrong. Currently, if you want to play a sorcerer, you need to select your spells from a very specific list in order to not face unreasonable problems caused by purely game mechanical reasons. Allowing sorcerers to learn more spells would encourage sorcerer players to select less useful spells for more personal role-playing flavor. And, naturally, be considerably more flexible when it comes to new spell additions and changes to server.

However, if it is deemed, unreasonably mind you, over powering, I would petition for removal of new Wizard spells learned on levels from 21 to 30. (And those are to be removed from old wizards as well, just kick them down to level 20, and then boost them back to their original level with the change in place. They will not loose the spells they have learned from scrolls, only the ones learned via the 'overpowered game breaking ability to learn new spells.')

[Krazy]

Not particularly? I think getting to pick 4 spells from levels 6 through 9, lessens the pain of choosing quite a bit if you ask me! Giving them 9 extra spells to allow spell swapping past 20 makes sorcs alot more powerful.

I'll be frank and say you are simply wrong. Currently, if you want to play a sorcerer, you need to select your spells from a very specific list in order to not face unreasonable problems caused by purely game mechanical reasons. Allowing sorcerers to learn more spells would encourage sorcerer players to select less useful spells for more personal role-playing flavor. And, naturally, be considerably more flexible when it comes to new spell additions and changes to server.

However, if it is deemed, unreasonably mind you, over powering, I would petition for removal of new Wizard spells learned on levels from 21 to 30. (And those are to be removed from old wizards as well, just kick them down to level 20, and then boost them back to their original level with the change in place. They will not loose the spells they have learned from scrolls, only the ones learned via the 'overpowered game breaking ability to learn new spells.')

LOL, wrong how?

Sorry Simian, but if only certain sorcerer spells are viable, that is a function of the environment, not the number of spells they know as such. Give them more spell picks, and I will bet you they pick more useful spells, they will not pick for more RP flavour.

Of course if you petition for something so ludicrous as wizards not getting spells from 21-30 (which by the way is not at all comparable to giving sorcerers more spell picks), then perhaps we should also petition that a sorcerer using Quicken spell, gets automatic spell failure. Since you know, they aren't supposed to be able to...

Edit: I am certainly on board with allowing re levelling to allow sorcerers to pick spells that are added to the server though that they never had a chance to pick.

[Blackman D]

The thing is, you can always ask for a de-level; 'Hey DM, kick me down to level 12. Chop-chop.' (You can say the same thing in a more polite manner; '/d Hello, is there any Dungeon Masters online? I would like to de-level my character down to level 12 and I am standing in Nexus. I would appreciate if it could be done as fast as possible, just kick me down and I'll be able to do things on my own. ')

have you ever played a sorcerer?

leveling then deleveling to have to level again manually completely defeats the purpose, seeing how sorcerers have to get spells they need now and not later, then once it gets to the later and they find out they dont need x spell anymore or they realize there is a spell they know that they thought was useful but never used then they swap it, but they dont have that option after CL 20

comparing them to a wizard is kind of impossible since sorcerers can know like 1/4 maybe 1/5 of all the spells and a wizard can have... all of them...

[Gruk]

Sorcerer spell known level 20

0st 6
1nd 5
2rd 5
3th 4
4th 4
5th 4
6th 3
7th 3
8th 3
9th 3

Favored soul/spirit shaman
0st 9
1nd 6
2rd 6
3th 6
4th 6
5th 6
6th 6
7th 6
8th 5
9th 4

someone compared sorc and favored soul ... just to point out favored soul have much more spell known ,but , they have the same number of spell known per day wich is 6 at level 20 , for all spells levels . i think its just because one dates back to the 3.0 D&D the other on 3.5 edition, of course one is divine the other arcane , both get epic spells and are capable of a lot of offence ; implosion ( 9) , fire storm (8) , earthquake (7) etc.. for fav. soul and meteor swarm (9), horrid whilting (8) , finger of death (7) for sorc for example.

where i would give an edge to the favored soul is defence and or party capabilities. The extra spells known gets mostly defensive picks ( etherealness , aura vs alignements etc..) a good sorc would do the same , but with less depth specially with groups having less picks .


but its no major diference , Sorcerer is pretty cool and functional as is , its just a big bummer to be able to try so few spells , NWN 1 could swap like 3 spells evry odd level i had a lot of fun with that and by the time you were 40 you had pretty much ran tested evry spells available and were able to make an enlighten final spell list.

but thats out there and way back then , in the here and now i'd just be happy to swap a few spells one way or another sowhere down the line . Specially the new ones. Delevelling more then 1 level back is not permitted , but i was able to delevel 1lvl a few times when i made critical mistakes , for that alone nobody should fear making a sorc , if you make a very bad mistake going back 1 level usually fixes it ( between 1-20 )and they are available and understanding on that.

Anyway , the three spells i'd like to swap arent worth a full delevel extreme process request ... if its the only way i'll wait until theres a real problem with my spell list , for now it was just for fun and RP.