New Crossbow Feats

[Side]

How do the new feats Crossbow Sniper and Crossbow Sniper, Master work if a character has both of them? I would guess the Master version would override the first, but it both doesn't mention anything about that and doesn't require the other feat to be taken first.

[Molag__Bal]

Master overrides the regular feat. They don't stack.

[Larzs]

Probably like Specialization that Fighters get.

[Side]

Is there a point to taking both then? Something seems fishy about it.

[nwnolan]

You have to take the first to get the second. And it's an additional 50% increase on top of the 100% increase.

[Side]

Ah cool, the requirements need changed on the forum then.

Crossbow Sniper
Type of Feat: General
Benefit: When using a crossbow for which you have the Weapon Focus feat, you gain a bonus on damage rolls equal to your Dexterity bonus.
If you do not have a weapon focus feat for the crossbow type you are using, you gain a damage bonus equal to 1/2 your Dexterity bonus.
Use: Automatic.

Crossbow Sniper, Master
Type of Feat: General
Requirement: BAB of 4 or higher.
Benefit: When using a crossbow for which you have the Weapon Focus feat, you gain a bonus on damage rolls equal to your 150% of your Dexterity bonus.
If you do not have a weapon focus feat for the crossbow type you are using, you gain a damage bonus equal to your Dexterity bonus.
Use: Automatic.

[Zlaayer]

The whole crossbow thing has gotten a little ridiculous. The crossbow was improved because it was such a terrible option before. Now there's no reason to use a longbow because crossbows get so much damage. A crossbow user can kill giants with impunity now. They won't get anywhere near you before they die.

[nwnolan]

It's true, crossbows are more powerful than longbows. But I still see more longbows running around than crossbows.

[Larzs]

Longbows look cooler(to me anyways) Crossbows...just look cumbersome and kinda stupid. XD

Also...you don't need feats to be able to fire more then once with a Bow.

[Coreska]

Longbows look cooler(to me anyways) Crossbows...just look cumbersome and kinda stupid. XD

I agree, I think the Heavy Crossbow looks really obtrusive.
I'd say on the topic of using Crossbows that you can't use them for Arcane Archer, but I'm pretty sure you can use them for Elemental Archer. That kind of throwing the AA argument out the window.

[Simian]

The whole crossbow thing has gotten a little ridiculous. The crossbow was improved because it was such a terrible option before. Now there's no reason to use a longbow because crossbows get so much damage. A crossbow user can kill giants with impunity now. They won't get anywhere near you before they die.

We are talking about crossbows here. Crossbows in real life shoot bolts that pierce plate mail armour. Crossbows can be fired pretty much like guns, which is, point and the bolt flies pretty much in a straight line. Thus it all makes sense to me.

In addition, in PnP, crossbow sniper feats increase the range of "ranged sneak attacks", allowing you to kill giants afar with the right build.

And we should not forget about those F//AA//EA//Ass builds which can do the exact same as those Crossbow builds you have in mind. The genuine difference is just that crossbows are better at the beginning, while bows have so much more to gain from the epic levels.

And heck, there is a pretty darn good reasons not to mess with a line of Dwarven Bolters! Silly elves...

[nwnolan]

Well but remember crossbows only use the 3 highest attacks, meaning they have a higher chance of doing their damage. And that's not a bad idea for a build actually, a Fighter/DD/EA. Could be a potential tank/damage-dealer.

[Simian]

Bows also have their 3 (FULL BAB, HASTE, RAPID SHOT) highest attacks, plus a boat load of additional ones.

[nwnolan]

I remember Molag posting the damage output of a longbow user vs. a crossbow user and the crossbow user was putting out like 10 extra damage per round. Which might not seem like much (because it isn't) but then he mentioned that the crossbow only uses the highest 3 attacks to do that damage, while the longbow needed to hit on all 6 attacks to do that same damage. This is from memory though so the numbers might not be correct. If someone could find the original topic about the feat that'd be great, I'm on my phone right now so it's hard to surf the forums.

[Simian]

Xbow: (50 + 17.5)*4 + 51*2 = 372
Longbow: (25 + 17.5)*6 + 25*5 = 380

I am not sure if those numbers are correct. (Edit; My correction back then wasn't.)

Going by your numbers:
First Sneak Attack: 50 + 17.5, 50 + 17.5 = 135.
Second Sneak Attack: 50 + 17.5, 50 +17.5 = 135.
Damage, when presuming that all attacks hit: 370

First Sneak Attack: 25 + 17.5, 25 + 17.5 = 85.
Second Sneak Attack: 25 + 17.5, 25 +17.5 = 85.
Third Sneak Attack: 25 + 17.5, 25 +17.5 = 85.
Damage, when presuming that all attacks hit: 380

My calculations were off the window, however, I've fixed them for the above quote. (I blame the buggy/confusing NWN2 mechanics.)

But you have to acknowladge the fact that both of these characters are at level 30. Thus, even the lowest attack bonus for the bow user is in the 30's. In otherwords, to miss an attack you need to either roll a one, or face someone with Epic Dodge, Deflection, Epic Deflection, Armed Deflection, or hefty amount of concealment. (Darkness Spell = 50% ranged concealment.) (Anyone recall my Anti-Crossbower build topic. )

Link to Luna's Crossbow Sniper Thread 2: http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t= ... t=crossbow