Stealth and RP.

[Therlyn]

Had a question regarding stealth and RP.
Quite some sneakers out there RP that they can talk/sleep or w/e when they are in stealth.

Question is should a person drop stealth when they speak?
In some way you just revealed yourself.
Talking does counter the idea behind MS.

Other question would be would this go for rangers/shadow dancers/assassins as well HIPS in general.

[Rasael]

The Chatscript could be modified to disable stealth whenever you talk or whisper - or only if you talk and not for whispers. Or possibly also if you send a tell etc...

That's just saying that it's a simple modification not that it's being worked on.

If you get DM approval and ask Ivan, TigerBomb or Luna they can do this real quick. Need DM approval though.

[Passiflora]

We can talk about it of course. Don't know yet where it will be placed in the astronomous amount of "thing to do" list, though.

[Broham2]

When a player speaks in stealth the words float out of the exact location of said person. That would allow you at least a general location to toss an acid bomb, a spell, etc. just like if they were hiding (and a SD can hide in a pretty tiny shadow).

Pulling the person all the way out of stealth seems a bit extreme to me, personally. Being able to shoot a hiding person with something that requires accuracy (like a bow) just because they made a sound, seems over the top. In addition, there are times when emotes can be used in stealth that are used to RP *rustle the bushes* or *you smell a strong herbal smell* or something like that, which I am guessing the engine would read as speech when it really isn’t.

Drop the nerfgun and step away from the nerfmobile Mr Rasael!

[Passiflora]

Perhaps it could drop one's move silently for a few seconds though. Ideas to look at, if it's possible.

[Rasael]

(Just stating the options - lower MS, stealth or rip them out... it's all possible, reach for the stars)

These things don't generally happen without DM approval

[Eifer]

I am glad that this has been brought up!

I have always been under the impression that when a character speaks, whispers, attempts to make noise in some way... that they are behaving in a less 'stealthy' manner than the character that is attempting to remain silent, as to not give away their hiding place.

While I'm certain that characters can be quite clever when it comes to hiding, when they whisper or speak to another character, I would imagine that character that hears might have a better idea where that stealther is located at that point. For example, when my cellphone is 'hiding', I often call it so that it makes noise, and I can pinpoint its location to discover it.

Thus, would it make sense that some penalty would apply, even if only for a few seconds?

[Blackman D]

you know.... suggestions like this is way people dont bother to RP things like stealth and PP now...

back when i first started it got RP'd all the time...

just sayin...

[Rex-Fury]

One of my favorite characters is a Fighter/WM with almost a 0 spot and listen. And even I don't agree with this. Just because a player speaks, when they are VERY good at hiding shouldn't allow someoen to be able to fling a sword at them or shoot a bow at them. That is why it's called Hide in Plain Sight.

[Zlaayer]

I see the different classes as using stealth in a different way.
*A ranger can hide in the forest environment very well.
*An assassin is nimble and agile and can hide in the urban environment very well by using cover.
*A shadowdancer is more of a supernatural ability. I think of them as "melting" into a shadow or turning into a dark mist that drops into a shadow and dissipates.

The real problem with the way people roleplay HIPS is that they will do it in a way that makes no sense. People treat it like invisibility, but it's much more difficult to counter. If someone uses HIPS in plain daylight in an open field some may justify their HIPS by saying "I'm hiding in the shadow of a blade of grass" or some other ridiculous thing when they are asked to defend their actions. Yes, a shadowdancer can hide in a shadow, but it has to be a certain size (twice the size of the creature that is HIPS'ing if I remember correctly). The fact is that the game implementation is pretty terrible and it's up to each of us to use HIPS in a way that is sensible.

I think it's alright to roleplay that you can be heard. I see a shadowdancer as existing only partly in the material plane. They are hiding in a shadow afterall, which is pretty mystical if you ask me. I would love it someone RP'd "*[insert name] speaks in a disembodied voice and you cannot tell where it is coming from*'Hello my play toy. I've been watching you.'" What usually happens is that someone sneaks up behind me and says "Boo!" and expect me to take it from there... This kind of interaction lacks a little bit of imagination in my opinion.

The same could be said about rangers and assassins. It's absolutely possible that their voice could be heard, but they may remain unseen. An assassin may be hiding on a rooftop, behind an ox cart, or in a doorway nearby. A ranger could be hiding in a tree or in some brush. They could even project their voices. I know many drow are taught from a young age to be able to predict the source of a sound based on the way it bounces off of cavern walls in the underdark (something I read in the Drizzt series). It's reasonable that an assassin could learn to bounce his voice off of objects to deceive his opponent.

Talking while you're HIPS'd isn't the problem. Roleplaying the stealth ability in a way that makes sense is what the real problem is. It's made difficult by the game mechanics, but it can be done. Use cover, use the night, pick your environment.

[Blackman D]

hide is plain sight is a supernatural ability period, this applies to both assassins and SD, as well as any other class that might have it and is not restricted such as rangers

the issue isnt how people RP it its the lack of being able to properly RP it due to the servers limitations

there are TONS of objects that if you were actually living on BG, would break line of sight and cast shadows, but because of how they are added on being environmental and have walkmesh cutters to help reduce the amount of server resources, this makes it impossible to properly use hips as well as makes it even more impossible for those without hips to hide from someone by breaking line of sight going behind a tree thats right in front of them but does nothing to break LOS mechanically

so unless they really want to convert things into a way that it actually works as advertised (which i doubt will happen because it would take up a lot of resources) you really cant fault hips RP in any way shape or form since "proper" RP is impossible

[Zlaayer]

I totally agree with you BMD. You can still RP it though. Just because the server doesn't render a shadow doesn't mean that it's unreasonable to assume one would be there. You can still RP it. I RP things all the time that you can't actually see in the game. I roleplay spell effects and describe them as people might see them as opposed to what the FX for the game show in some instances. The same logic can be applied to HIPS. I was under the impression that assassin HIPS wasn't supernatural though? Maybe I'm wrong . . .

[Blackman D]

the 3.5 DMG for assassins and shadow dancers has the same description for hips, both are (su)

for the longest time i thought the same thing but then when people kept complaining about it i checked it myself since i have the DMG

[Blackman D]

and yes you can still rp it, tho with the way things are currently set up lots of people dont even see things like trees and bushes at certain angles so have no idea they are in one anyway

but props to those that try but honestly its all the anti stealth stuff thats been added or people keep suggesting that kills it, because now its not that fun anymore

like how back in the day if you only had a 50s for h/ms you were golden, if you only have that now a days its a joke (for one who would call themselves a "dedicated" sneak at least)

[Broham2]

back in the day if you only had a 50s for h/ms you were golden, if you only have that now a days its a joke (for one who would call themselves a "dedicated" sneak at least)

Yep, the stealth vs spotter argument has been long won by the spotters here, and re-hashed a million times clearly showing (IMO) the tip toward spotting.

It is rather unfortunate.

It is still great fun to RP, and for pvm, but unless you're pushin close to the triple digits, you shoooo aint golden. And how you gonna do that with the modern gear?

And to keep it within the rails.. RPing stealth is fine and all, but a 'toggle hostile + attack' is sure as hell a lot faster than me typing anything worth reading.