Developing the Underdark

[DM Sword]

One thing I have to ask is what times the majority of the UDers play. I am from the USA and I am usually on at nights. So many of you Euro's may not see me very often.

[Eldebryn]

One thing I have to ask is what times the majority of the UDers play. I am from the USA and I am usually on at nights. So many of you Euro's may not see me very often.

I have the impression that a significant deal of the 7th Circle is playing at EU times

[DM Sword]

*sad face*

[Passiflora]

Come to europe, Sword!

[nwnolan]

These time zones are so confusing. I'll be playing early morning and late nights in MST (middle of the US timezone). I see a fair amount of players on, which is good!

[C_aribou]

I understand, and see all your points. However, I don't think the concept of having all Evil races/alignments cooperating is really that ICly realistic. The Conclave itself doesn't work together that often, unless faced by a mutual threat. I think this is the case for a NE city; every individual/group/faction is looking out for their OWN interests, and disdains various other individuals/groups/factions/RACES/RELIGIONS. Perhaps the elements of a CE situation (fighting in the streets), might not be present - but conflict can certainty be done more discreetly. I know that kind of RP will make engaging events, and situations.

Unless that dynamic is incorporated (at least from my experience in these kinds of settings!) into the RP when your dealing with evil alignments, things are going to stay rather stagnant... and boring. All of this is doable by dedicated players as well.

As for the 'defense' of the city, I am not really sure what that means. Quite clearly NPCs are handling all that...

As for there not being enough 'players', I don't think thats the case. In the last four days I have encountered numerous Lolthites, and various other players of different kinds of Drow/Races/etc. I think the key is just organizing people... people are quitting the setting because a lot of people AVOID RP (Yes!! I see people ignore emotes and just run off all the time!!!) and people don't know what kind of factions/groups to get involved in. Everyone is just trying to find where their character 'fits' in Sshamath.

Unfortunately, very few factions are organized except for now the 7th Circle, and a few Drow Noble Houses (which haven't been exactly very active in recent weeks, apparently).

The fact is Sshamath is very cosmopolitan, the city, as described in Lore has various factions and religions. There IS according to lore still an active Temple for Lolth and Vhaeraun. Although the mages have put themselves at the top, its not like any of us are playing people IN the Conclave. Maybe we should all focus on placing our characters in roles/factions that fit their alignment/religion/race?

[DM Sword]

but conflict can certainty be done more discreetly

The fact is Sshamath is very cosmopolitan, the city, as described in Lore has various factions and religions.

Yes, exactly. IMHO discrete evil is the best kind. Hide in plain sight is not only a feat, it is a way of life, it is the very thing that keeps traitors, villains, and schemers alive. In my tenure here as a DM I have seen some exceptional examples of this... I mean truly awe-inspiring examples, some of them still play here with their original characters. The thing is that they need to try to further their plans secretly, sometimes (most the time?) they fall on their face, but they always manage to crawl away undetected. The very nature for any evil type should be self preservation. So can we stab someone in the face in the passage leading from the city with a host of NPC and/or PC onlookers? Sure, is that the best way to preserve our plans and lives? Probably not, but that is my humble opinion. Evil has to be smart, wise and always have a plan B, C and D, just in case...

The glory of the underdark is that you can play evil, and for the most part, get away with it. However their are limitations. You have to be careful of who's toes you step on. You have to belong in order to betray, and the difference between a friend and an enemy is that a friend deserves a quick death.

[C_aribou]

Exactly! Since Lolth is not supreme deity, her followers now even more have to rely on her tenets of secrecy, deception, and trickery... personally I don't play my priestess masquerading as the superior to everyone, simply because she knows she won't get away with that in Sshamath (unlike the place of her birth!). However, I still think the temple is an institution people should no better not to make their enemy (afterall, Assassins are within Lolth's portfolio).

[Eldebryn]

Assassins are within Lolth's portfolio).

Man, this is the UD... Assasinss are in everyone's portfolio

As it has been mentioned discrete RP is key, whatever your alignment is you should keep it secret, for the Dark Weavings surround us all the time...

Also I don't think that evil PCs cooperating when they have a common goal and benefits is wrong RP-wise. House members do it all the time in other cities and I also realize how every player needs to be part of a faction that is more specific and appropriate for his character. That is also why I implemented Representatives of other guilds to the Circle

[Gruk]

there can be as much conflict as one can wish , yet one thing remains : were gona have to cooperate and be organized if we want DM events on a more steady basis ...

I participated in a few UD events , none of wich were with less the 4 players and most were with many more , that's kind of a hint. And besides , cant RP alone ...

If the Three are plottting to undermine Sshamath or that a shadow dragon is heard roaming the deep tunnels i feel its normal any and all PC citizen would like to rise to the occasion.

I think that's where the 7th circle comes in , you dont have to be in love with evry members , you dont have to change you're RP concerning views on slavery or racial supperiority ... it just means , if its circle buisness ( quest or mission) put aside differences and get the job done.

I like loth , i think no drow setting is complete without a bad ass mama somwhere in there ... i really hope we get at least one on the circle and that they're given some room to do their thing , even if its only to spread discension among the lower classes.

[Eldebryn]

if its circle buisness ( quest or mission) put aside differences and get the job done.

I have been thinking of something like that for a 7th Circle catch-phrase. I think it fits the faction and expresses them really well. Resolve is very important there, it doesn't matter how, but they are the best and that's what they. Get the job done.

Sounds like a nice way to get involved in plots and happenings if nothing else, right?

[Melisende]

I agree with Sword regarding subtle and nuanced characters, whether one is evil, neutral, or good. The idea of creating numerous factions in the Underdark has been tried however. It was prevalent when there were more players and it will again be common place should a certain critical mass be achieved.

No one is against establishing groups and factions. For the time being, the case for broad cooperative play remains compelling however. Doing so is good for garnering DM backing as Gruk has stated, and it is also beneficial for providing traction to those starting out in the setting for the first time. Personally, I would enjoy some intrigue and conflict roleplay (outside of the city) but I can also see how some might consider being coerced, mugged, or attacked because of in-game religious, political, or social affiliation as tantamount to harassment.

At this time, I believe that the aim should be to build a sense of community and I am not sure that splintering the player base is the best way to achieve that. This is not to say that there cannot be nefarious and underhanded things going on or that players should not create their own evil cliques working for their own ends. Only, any roleplay along these lines needs to be consent based and not turn the whole of the Underdark into a PvP fest. If that happens, chaos, DM intervention and further departures from the server will surely follow.

[Eldebryn]

Oh, and for the love of God... I beg you!

Try to add a signpost outside Gloura's that mentions city Laws and that one cannot hold weapons inside the city...

Today I met a newbie that played a Lolthite and she refused repeatedly to sheath her huge blade in the Bazaar when my wizard asked her to, because "she had no respect for the males" *facepalm*

[C_aribou]

I know, a sign would be good... I constantly have to ICly yell at people, including Lolthites; "Sheath your weapons, do you want the Charnag Maelthra at our throats?!"

I don't think the player-base will be 'splintered' by factions, btw. There is a good sense of player community in Sshamath, which I really like. Regularly I am RPing/seeing the same players/characters. Even if ICly my character disdains someone, its all fun and games OOCly.

[Rainbow Prism]

I agree on the point of players ignoring IC situations. Funny thing, at the times I were playing in UD, I often met new players (who managed to get to epic fast, which says about the kind) who ignore the players altogether and brandish weapons in city. Buffed.

And situation with little knowledge about Sshamath should be easy to correct. You play evil PCs. Give 'warm welcome' to overstepping noble or priestess. Point at the thread here or show them the forum. If they want to RP, they will adapt. If not, they will continue like other, not so distinguished players, until their big splash comes.

By the way, Conclave actively works together. Members are evil and chaotic mostly, but that does not stop cooperation. If you want to make a RL example, look at stereotype big evil corporation. The board of directors gathers people together, but each has plan they try to covertly complete. The same can be said about underlings under their commands. It is my opinion that drow mentality has much more finesse in Sshamath than in other cities (towns, actually. Yes, Menzo and Ched are towns, and Sshamath is city!), so whoever thinks that drow in Sshamath are uncapable of cooperating because of their alignment should really check the info and consider it carefully.

Not sure about signs. There are no official decrees due to chaos, but silent rules. Perhaps NPC that whispers the rules to the players in Gloura's Wings.