Make Orcs KOS?

[Amal'launim]

Banned to the Underdark? Sounds like that's the naughty corner of the server when phrased like that

I'm not really certain what your problem is on the matter, if your character has an inclination to go on an orc killing spree then just adhere to the PvP rules - give the characters an RP out such as *slowly draws his sword and walks with a murderous deliberation towards the orc, plainly intending to give no quarters*

if the player in question doesn't want to PvP they can flee.

refer them to this post if you must and they start going OOC about it:

Subject: DM Recommended Gray Orc RP Guidelines

This is an official response to the Gray Orc Race - I repeat this is an official response after discussion and weighing in. DMs support these first draft guidelines/rules.

The overall thought is to keep in mind that this race has been at war with all of civilization for as long as anyone can remember.

Cites: Orcs RPed agression (depending on roleplayed response) be prepared for PvP or having RP challenged. Walk in the cities at your own peril... be disguised it would be common for an orc to act like it shouldn’t be there or being there you are very uncomfortable in fear for your life..etc.. we are not telling you to act that way, but if you do not..be prepared for different issues that arise. Your an Orc in a human city. We do understand that you will probably be spawning in cities.. have a disguise or be ready to RP your way out of possible agressive situations.

Backgrounds: Most live farther north and aren’t truly common in this area and their background should probably reflect it. If you come up with whatever suits you that of course is your choice, however the above is our suggestion.

Countryside: be prepared for aggression that you should respond to. Your responses are of course your own, but consider these a rough guideline. Simply ignoring it isn’t an option that would be expected for an orc.. we highly recommend you RP the situation. Be prepared for the possibility of being racially excluded, people ignoring your opinions because of what you are not what you do. The concept of 100% racial equality is such a foreign concept for those who see orcs and orcs themselves it will probably not enter into it and be prepared for that to occur. Orcs are a race that have been, enslaving, attacking, warring with main populations and cities forever.

Other Players: These are Orcs... we would encourage you to act accordingly concerning an enemy of mankind... wariness. Distrust out and out hatred. All of these are viable options. Keep in mind to RP the conflicts accordingly. Without proper infrastructure in place to support a KoS surface race it needs to be a delicate balance of aggression and this is not a KoS race at this time.

For those that already have an Orc in place you have one week from the time of these rules to be in place to exchange your orc for a half orc if you feel these rules do not sit well with you... this technical remake is only possible due to the fact that gray orcs were released on the surface before these rules were in place and may significantly alter your rp experience with the Gray Orc. This offer is only in place for one week after this posting.

Date of Posting 11/16/09 Date of expiration 11/23/09

As a staff we encourage this to be roleplayed race both by the player of the Gray Orc and others interacting with the PC. Aggression and PvP would be a distinct possibility and we as a staff would like you to be prepared for it when taking this option. The Gray Orc will probably be a tough road.

PS Please someone with the power sticky this.. and also if you wish to comment start a different thread so it will be easier to sticky to start with. *In the Ed-209 Voice* Thank you for your cooperation.

But yes, orcs are very prevalent on the surface, and not so in the Underdark. Small caves, into mountains and so forth is NOT the Underdark. Every little hole in the ground you come across is just that. A hole. The Underdark is leagues an leagues beneath the surface.

[Simian]

As a Fist, I did unmask quite many Grey-Orcs myself in the city, ten I think. I presume most players expected PvP in the streets of Baldur's Gate and thus logged off... But two grey-orc players stood around long enough for me to ask:
//// What quests do you need to start/finish in the city?

And then god-mode:
[ A Group of Fists grab the Grey-orc, carry it outside the city gates, and beyond the farmlands throwing it to the nearest pile of dung and telling it to stay away. ]

And finally my character would whistle while walking elsewhere so that they could finish their bussiness ASAP and leave the city. Hey, my favourite character is a Spirit Shaman, I am not going to tell anyone that they cannot do quests for experience.

[Angel Nightfire]

I'm not really certain what your problem is on the matter, if your character has an inclination to go on an orc killing spree then just adhere to the PvP rules - give the characters an RP out such as *slowly draws his sword and walks with a murderous deliberation towards the orc, plainly intending to give no quarters*

The problem is that most characters would never ICly give an orc an out, for instance if an elf or a dwarf were to do so that would just be bad RP. Giving orcs an out in many situations is an OOC action that is only used because the rules say we have to and there in lies my problem which is why I would like Orcs to be KOS.

[Amal'launim]

An IC out does not have to be your character marching up and saying "If you don't leave this area, we'll kill you"

An IC out can be, just as I described above: *draws his sword and moves up towards the orc with a clear intention of giving no quarters*


Your character still haven't given an out, but the other part has a chance to flee if they want. From my point of view, it's more a matter of the Player not wanting to give the out. There's been made an extensive guideline to orcs, which also clarifies why it isn't possible to make them a KOS race.

To the best of my knowledge, then that reason hasn't changed. There's no infrastructure to support an orc "civilization" (if you can call orcish culture that =P )

[kellendril]

Yeah, I kinda dislike that, personally, as I said. But I'm one of a kind who do everything to avoid being a part of pvp or even witness it.

Not one of a kind. I'm with you on that.

I too dislike any "KOS", simply because it takes away from a chance for RP

[Gottmoerder]

Is this just about Grey Orcs? Because Half-Orcs are often raised in human enviroments, making them civil, just ugly ass hell, with kids throwing stones at them and shouting slurs. A grey orc however, would make the kids soil their undies and run to mommy instantly. This is my picture of it.

The rules are already there, I think what we need now (and it's a very good time. an excellent time, at a brink of war) is an IC campaign against the tolerance for orcs. A proper IC smear campaign.

Know that the surface is still the Orcish home and they have tribes that will retaliate if threatened, often with brutal efficiency.

[Passiflora]

Oh yes. If someone tries to kill a Half Orc in Baldur's, the fists would stop the fight. There's Half Orcs who are lead of temples and important people in Baldur's, even if it's a bastard race.

[Angel Nightfire]

From my point of view, it's more a matter of the Player not wanting to give the out.

You guys are way too focused on melee, a wizard would never get close enough to threaten an orc and a ranger would just shoot it outright neither of them getting close enough for all that PvP red tape.

I miss the old days where you could just PM a DM whenever you saw an orc on the surface and ask for permission to shoot it, a permission that would always be granted.

Think I'll go make a mage thoughm just imagine the encounter going through the red tape:....*the mage takes a threatening stance and draws out...a spoon!* as the orc sees no apparent danger it does nothing and next *Kazaam!* The orc is dust.....then again that could be played as a druid too seen as a way of natural beautification.

[Passiflora]

The mage can start buffing himself and say something like "You will die today, evil creature..."

Or my favorite. "You shall not pass!... alive."

[Knightmare]

It's been a while since I've read up on the grey-orc lore but if my memory doesn't fail me, I believe that the only place they live on the surface is/was in their homeland. Both before and after the whole "portal odeal". Any isolated pockets of grey-orcs have been driven underground, and one could argue that the same should apply on BG and the Sword Coast. Personally, I think it should.

However, the initial implementation allows grey-orcs to be on the surface, so if they are to be driven underground, some sort of player movement would have to take place and the thing role-play'ed out.

Mountain orcs have been known to be at odds with grey-orcs. Perhaps that could be usable in a possible future exodus along with something player-driven.

Just throwing out ideas...

[Wra1thstouch]

I think gray orcs should be KOS if they are not wearing a mask or some way to cover up. If they are covered up, we should have a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. Players should be able to play what they want to play without some snooty elf (just poking fun) harassing them because they got too close to the gnoll campfire.

Yeah, I know, it sounds bigoted. But I think players should be able to play whatever they want as long as they at least make an attempt to hide it when necessary. Otherwise, I demand to be able to play a Sun Elf in the UD!

[c2k]

I personally don't like any notion of "KOS" at all. Even for drows. I think pretty much every scenes need to be RPed.

This video pretty much sums up what happens when drow and elves, or any race and full blooded orcs meet up in the world of Faerun:



I personally think the KoS rule is to give the person a heads up and an out when it comes to PvP, which is understandable. Nobody likes to get sucker punched(especially when winning in NWN2 PvP is dependent on a strong first action that you want to get off first) and most people will complain if they lose in such a manner.

I guess if we weren't such horrible winners and losers(a great point posted in that thread "What BG has taught me"), there wouldn't be the need for KoS rules at all.

[Muttley]

Pylia(Bethany) was rude to Orcs. But then Pylia was always blunt to begin with to people she even liked. And god forbid if you were a half elf... I miss RPing Pylia.

[stevebarracuda]

Ugh. Really?

Gray orcs are nomads. They dwell in remote, desolate corners of northeast Faerûn and eke out a meager existence, traveling along traditional migratory routes between established campsites and favorite caves as the seasons change…

Gray orcs of the eastern lands are concentrated in the Moonsea and Endless Wastes, with a much smaller number scattered through the various lands that lie between. While just as mean, savage, and barbaric as their northern cousins, gray orcs lack their mountainous kin's drive to conquer and enslave.

If you're gonna start a OOC campaign to get Gray Orcs off the surface, then realize they DO live on the surface. Sure, there shouldn't be this many in the Sword Coast, but I've counted about 20...out of how many players/toons? Is that really too much?

Other than that issue, being the player of Krasc, and running the Brotherhood of the Orcbloods tribe (or trying to at least... ), yes, I myself expect much more confrontation with Krasc and the general populace. I just assume it's FEAR of my Orc, for not initiating PvP, and that is OK by me, because people should FEAR Gray Orcs, because they are rather ruthless.

Furthermore, I just want to bring something up about balance, between good and evil, and what should be allowed and not be allowed on this server:

The other day, a DM event around the campfire was centered on a farmer bring a very large pig up to those gathered around the fire, and offering that pig for sale. A few toons were acting quite evil, saying evil things, and eventually slayed the pig ruthlessly and very evil like. The boosted about it, very evil like. Now, did any one react with an issue to this just gross behavior? No one.

Sure, it was "funny" and kinda a "in the know" mini DM event. But this is just an example of silly behavior, and we all have to let go a little bit, yes?

So, my point is: so much goes on in this PW that is just WAY OUT OF LINE OF ANY SORT OF LORE/CLASS/RACE BELIEVABILITY that taking a stance on Gray Orcs is just the tip of the ice berg, and if you want to start down this road, I suggest you get ready for a whole slew of "get with the program on race/class/lore" issues!

Shall I start?

1. Good warlocks
2. Warlocks, alone
3. People wearing hoods all the time (the Fist would be questioning then constantly...)
4. Clerics of differing deities even speaking to each other, nicely. I mean, c'mon, if you're a holy roller, you should on top of that sh*t.
5. Toons running all the time.
6. Slaying wolves in front of druids, and the druids not getting free PvP rights!

Shall I go on?

[Blackman D]

Shall I go on?

xas

and im glad good warlocks were #1 bc seriously wtf