addition to PvP rules suggestion

[mute83]

After some talk in a guild, I startet to think about the rules, and think it needs to be changed a little. In its current state, Joe Good can stumble upon Mr Evil and his merry bunch, who are, doing what ever they do. In its current state, they have to give Joe an Rp out, which Joe can take and the run along and tell ½ the server, so they come and stump on Mr evil and his merry bunch, and also spread the rumor on the forum, so everybody knows.
I suggest that, if you take the RP out, you shouldnt be allowed to tell anyone, or post about it on the forum. In its current state, there dosnt seem to be any consequence for the goodies, but the evil onces can get perma killed.
This server have a historie of favorising the goods, harrashing evil chars/guilds/players, and I have heard they have even been used as cannon fodder for the goodies. The staff say this shouldnt be happening anymore. I cant prove it happens, but i cant prove it dosnt either. But a rule change like this, would show, to a degree, that the evil chars, arent just here, to be fodder for the goodies, and they are making changes to how they are treated.
I cant see why this rule shouldnt be added, unless this is what people want to happen/do.
Some might say this could still happen, but that is when screenshots can come in handy Or that some could just make a different forum account and post it, but the staff can track/ban IP's. In the case they also use a different IP. Well, im confident in the staffs ability, to realise something would bt "at foul" in such a situation. Plus they could request they forwarded a screenshot, to prove they where there.
With this rule, people who dont want to PvP can still avoid it, but their actions still have some consequence.

[dzidek1983]

i think he should be able to explain that *something* was going on *in there* but he cant remember the faces

[mute83]

i think he should be able to explain that *something* was going on *in there* but he cant remember the faces

Something like hat, could work, then people would know stuff is happening, but nobody is exposed.

[Krazy]

Wouldn't stop the goodie brigade coming over and having a look see...

[Simian]

RP-out: Force the goodie to partake in whatever so he is as quilty as the rest of evil villains and knaves?

Or just kill him?

[Aelcar]

Wouldn't stop the goodie brigade coming over and having a look see...

This. If you think you NEED this, then it's purpose is already defeated: you can never prove it's been broken, so people will "casually" stumble upon you and "inadvertantly" cut your evil head off.

This is an RP culture problem, not a rule issue.

Yesterday I was harrassed by 2 evil guys on my paladin. Got a spell cast on me (failing) without RP out, nor initiating PvP in any way. Being higher in level, I could have just clicked smite evil and end it there. I RPed with them all the way, without attacking, nor putting them hostile.

The decisions are ours to make, and we have to keep in mind our evil OOC friends' desires, when we act. You cant enforce that with rules.

[Rainbow Prism]

There is a sad history of supposedly 'good' PCs harrassing evil PCs. Some of them are gone forever from server, some still haunt it. The problem is that they try to put their OOC griefing into RP, which they do successfully.

However, this is civilized region where evil characters that use necromancy and demon summoning are shunned by common sense. If that was evil Thay land, we could use this rule against players who play against setting. Even if it was Sigil, this rule could be applied since it is weirdland with weird things. But actually, it does not make sense here in Sword Coast. Why Joe Good should turn blind eye to evil deeds if they are done? If your main concern is this PvP affecting permadeath, then you should add different addition that will make permadeath count only in extreme conditions like:

For example, evil characters try to do his evil deeds (really evil deeds) in front of Fists, many citizens, alot of other NPCs and said Joe Good. What happens?
Exactly. Snickety snickt, stab, slash. We have a hero that stopped evil (enter misdeed title for villains)! Reroll your evil character, please.

[kellendril]

I voted no, because honestly, it would reduce the chance of future RP based on the event. its not that it didn't happen, its just that some people (like me) hate PVP, but like to RP pretty much everything, including being accosted. It opens up many avenues for RP

In addition, I think that a person running off is a perfectly valid response to being accosted by people on the road, and so is the finding of allies to return with, particularly if the band of bandits happened to appear too large or strong for the single wanderer to handle alone.

[tooley1chris]

If a paladin runs into a group doing evil he may be considered merciful for giving them a second chance but honestly if you think about any group, If someone gets caught doin something then the witness tells EVERYONE. Paladin will tell his fellow followers that THAT person is bad and should be avoided/watched. I almost always play evil so I'm not making excuses but people talk when others do something bad or taboo. Tis how it is.

[Managarn]

I voted no, because honestly, it would reduce the chance of future RP based on the event. its not that it didn't happen, its just that some people (like me) hate PVP, but like to RP pretty much everything, including being accosted. It opens up many avenues for RP

In addition, I think that a person running off is a perfectly valid response to being accosted by people on the road, and so is the finding of allies to return with, particularly if the band of bandits happened to appear too large or strong for the single wanderer to handle alone.

The thing with that, is you see evil person with say an undead minion.

Normally hed fight you to the death so you dont spread rumour but instead he has to say "leave or die" You obviously leave and tell some people.

The rule is meant to protect ppl that did not want to do anything with it. If your gonna engage yourself in rp by going to find ppl then he should be able to respond by chasing you. But that is my opinion of how the rule should work and now im going a bit offtopic

It is fair that if you encounter someone and he is doing something evil you aint gonna stand around long, hence you dont notice everything and have a vague idea of what is going on.
You aint gonna go back and tell the campfire goodies, there was a man who was 5'9 with a black hood and long blond hair coming out of it with a black and red studded leather. he had 2 dagger on each side of is hips of about half a feet each as if you had read is BIO. No he is just some hooded man/woman who was doing something that looked awfully fishy.

If you had been stealthed and had time to look at details then that enters into the okay to pvp zone if he spots you imo.

[Considerate_]

I can sincerely sympathies with the predicament you illustrate, though I am doubtful it’s as simple as making an addition to the rules – it has been proven time and time again that we cannot legislate our way out of every single scenario, and the rules are already quite extensive as it is.

My best advice if you run into a scenario where your character is doing something morally questionable is to be prepared for the inevitable. Being caught.

There’s a variety of different means at your disposal, and I’ve tried to concoct two I hope that might be of both help to you in this predicament and add some flavoured Role Play to your usual aspects. I hope you will read these with the understanding that I enjoy spicing a bit of humour into my proposals.

Your evil character of dastardly deeds has already prepared for such meager eventuality as being caught by a coward fleeing at the sight of you, therefore whenever performing nefarious deeds your character wears a mask and a different set of clothing than the usual and non-conspicuous everyday clothing he/she would opt to wear in public.
Conclusion: If someone happens to wander in on you while having a tea-party with Bob the Zombie and Skeleton Frank, and wisely opt to flee, they can divulge no more information than: “There was a hooded man in the ruins doing bad things!”

If for whatever reason your character either has no contingency for being caught or it merely happened to be laundry day there’s still a few ways to solve the troublesome prospect of goodie-two-shoes interference. Distance yourself from the scene of crime, get some plausible deniability, lay low for a while, and do a bit of charity like walking old ladies over the road. Evil pretending to be good is RP too.
Conclusion: Your character might be under surveillance for a time, but if no evidence is found to support the claim while feigning innocent and petting a cuddly household animal (I suggest a cat, put don’t pick the arch typical evil white cat. . . or bald cat, they’re suspicious) you still have a fair chance to get away with it.

Should our principal all time evil character in question, for whatever reasons have decided to play an archtypical comedy villain who refuses to mask his/her presence while performing nefarious deeds or have an honourable code of conduct that means they won’t hide their vile schemes either through disguise or deceit... then yes, the current PvP guidelines will be problematic.

Might I suggest communication in that case? Take a brief moment to OOCly send a Tell along these lines:
"Hello there, I don't wish to force on your RP but I would very much like that if you decide to take the IC out as per the PvP rules then your character is unable to give any specific details that would reveal my characters identity to others. Thank you"

It doesn't add role play, but at least you're opening up the possibility of an OOC dialouge to agree on what the fleeing/defeated character knows and doesn't know.

I hope my suggestion was of some contribution to solving the dilemma - as said I can completely sympathies with it, I just don't happen to think adjusting the rules will be the most effective means of accomplicing your goal.

Edit: Tidied it all up a bit.

[MasterSilke]

I do not believe that there should be any additions to the current rule, and the addition being proposed would actually be counterproductive to authentic RP. Let us assume that an extremely well-known player character who is viewed as a fine, upstanding individual by the vast majority of other PC's and NPC's is really a coniving, deceitful necromancer and demon consorter. If a paladin or some other "goody-two-shoe" were to stumble across said famous individual while in the middle of his or her sinister hobbies, it would be absurd for the "goody-two-shoe" to run frantically to his colleagues and not recall who he saw unless the famous (and secretly villainous) character took some precautions to hide his or her identity in some way.

All in all, I would say that Considerate has hit the nail right on the head. All of our IG actions can have IG consequences, for good or ill. As such, one should be ready for any possible outcomes that arise. If one wishes to perform a number of evil and dasterdly deeds, then that person should try to keep his or her bases covered be it through disguises, false alibis, or any other means of deception. Also, this does not only apply to sinister villains. Characters who are part of an organization and do not want their membership to be well-known (such as members of the Thieves Guild or Harpers) would also have to take certain precautions while performing services for said organization.

[shadedwonder]

This is an RP culture problem, not a rule issue.

Yesterday I was harrassed by 2 evil guys on my paladin. Got a spell cast on me (failing) without RP out, nor initiating PvP in any way. Being higher in level, I could have just clicked smite evil and end it there. I RPed with them all the way, without attacking, nor putting them hostile.

The decisions are ours to make, and we have to keep in mind our evil OOC friends' desires, when we act. You cant enforce that with rules.

I agree with this. ^ There are several things that some players sometimes don't take into account, and most of those have to do with RP culture. One time I had a lower level character outside the Hilltop ruins when a high level Drow walks up, sets to hostile, shoots me to pieces with his bow and arrow, THEN says "I have killed ye" and runs off. Of course one could argue the whole kill on sight thing but he was a Drow on the surface... in any case it's definitely RP culture. While there are some who try to fully immerse themselves in whatever character they're playing and go by solid guidelines, not everyone is that way.

[Aelcar]

This is an RP culture problem, not a rule issue.

Yesterday I was harrassed by 2 evil guys on my paladin. Got a spell cast on me (failing) without RP out, nor initiating PvP in any way. Being higher in level, I could have just clicked smite evil and end it there. I RPed with them all the way, without attacking, nor putting them hostile.

The decisions are ours to make, and we have to keep in mind our evil OOC friends' desires, when we act. You cant enforce that with rules.

I agree with this. ^ There are several things that some players sometimes don't take into account, and most of those have to do with RP culture. One time I had a lower level character outside the Hilltop ruins when a high level Drow walks up, sets to hostile, shoots me to pieces with his bow and arrow, THEN says "I have killed ye" and runs off. Of course one could argue the whole kill on sight thing but he was a Drow on the surface... in any case it's definitely RP culture. While there are some who try to fully immerse themselves in whatever character they're playing and go by solid guidelines, not everyone is that way.

And I would like to add that guys like the Drow of the example should go play cards instead of crapping on an RP server of this quality.

[testmon]

The thing with that, is you see evil person with say an undead minion.

Normally hed fight you to the death so you dont spread rumour but instead he has to say "leave or die" You obviously leave and tell some people.

The rule is meant to protect ppl that did not want to do anything with it. If your gonna engage yourself in rp by going to find ppl then he should be able to respond by chasing you. But that is my opinion of how the rule should work and now im going a bit offtopic

It is fair that if you encounter someone and he is doing something evil you aint gonna stand around long, hence you dont notice everything and have a vague idea of what is going on.
You aint gonna go back and tell the campfire goodies, there was a man who was 5'9 with a black hood and long blond hair coming out of it with a black and red studded leather. he had 2 dagger on each side of is hips of about half a feet each as if you had read is BIO. No he is just some hooded man/woman who was doing something that looked awfully fishy.

If you had been stealthed and had time to look at details then that enters into the okay to pvp zone if he spots you imo.

personal favorite of mine, and i have seen this in the forum and even ingame many times is:
"i have seen someone do evil *describes the looks of Damien Blackheart*"
and i mean not that the player describes the looks of the other player, but that s/he writes it like i just did. (with the according name naturally)


and why i voted for that rule is pretty simple, goods here have a bazillion ways to really f**** s*hit up for you and the evils can do...wear a mask. and technically the rules say if a "good" one pvp's you down he can drag you to the fists right away (strike to permadeath anyone?).
it is not hard to feel as if evils are just cattle for the good ones amusement under the current rules, so i naturally welcome any idea for change.