Death exp condensed

[Blackbird]

Based on the fact that players were finding ways to abuse the respawn to corpse option, I wouldn't be surprised if they find ways to do the same with a death system that no longer costs xp. Some examples I can think of:

- A character acquires his tenth resilient troll hide from up north, but doesn't really feel like making the trip back to CK. He lets a troll kill him, then respawns at the FAI.

- A character is in the Vault of the Dead and finds an epic heavy plate that makes his character heavily encumbered. He doesn't want to leave it behind, so he lets a monster kill his character and respawns at Elfsong tavern, where he puts it on a mule.

You can do both of these already; it just costs exp.

[Molag__Bal]

You can do both of these already; it just costs exp.

That was kind of my point. People don't do these OOC things right now because of the xp cost.

[Blackbird]

You can do both of these already; it just costs exp.

That was kind of my point. People don't do these OOC things right now because of the xp cost.

No people that we know about. It would be very easy for long-time level 30 players to do it and take no penalties in order to travel around the map more quickly. Obviously the DMs can't hang around watching who is dying when and where all the time, so even if it were exploited, it's kind of a moot point unless we have a squad of Death Watch Police.

I feel like what this is coming down to is:

The current system is in place because people will exploit another system, which puts us back on the "punish everyone for two or three people" train.

So what do we do about that? Anything?

[Molag__Bal]

The current system is in place because people will exploit another system, which puts us back on the "punish everyone for two or three people" train.

So what do we do about that? Anything?

The current system is in place because it has worked well for several years with minimal complaints. The server is always full, so it isn't reasonable to argue that the death penalty is turning away players. If you want to play on a server that doesn't punish players for dying, go find one that meets your needs.

[Blackbird]

The current system is in place because people will exploit another system, which puts us back on the "punish everyone for two or three people" train.

So what do we do about that? Anything?

The current system is in place because it has worked well for several years with minimal complaints. The server is always full, so it isn't reasonable to argue that the death penalty is turning away players. If you want to play on a server that doesn't punish players for dying, go find one that meets your needs.

Molag, I think you are confusing what I'm asking with what Merc has said. I don't think we should have no penalty. On the contrary; there absolutely needs to be a penalty for death. Without one, then yes, there would be rampant abuse of player deaths as teleporting devices. I am just wondering if there is way for it to make more sense from an RP point of view. Nowhere did I say that the death penalty was driving players away either. The server obviously has a very healthy population numbers-wise.

[muffinFBSL]

- A character acquires his tenth resilient troll hide from up north, but doesn't really feel like making the trip back to CK. He lets a troll kill him, then respawns at the FAI.

- A character is in the Vault of the Dead and finds an epic heavy plate that makes his character heavily encumbered. He doesn't want to leave it behind, so he lets a monster kill his character and respawns at Elfsong tavern, where he puts it on a mule.

Those are legitimate concerns and would almost certainly occur. However, there are so many ways to abuse so many things like this that I can't see these particular exploits or any ones similar to be significant. The trek through Fugue is only marginally shorter than the trip from the Troll Claws to Candlekeep, and they have to sit there watching their character die (which is surprisingly upsetting even when it's intentional). That person could just as easily wait for a reset, and the same goes for the lucky fellow with the epic heavy plate. Any character who has recently gained a level can already do this, and their character-suicides would only be slightly less immersible than any courageous level 3 who has been split in half by a Lizardfolk Chieftain in the Cloakwoods.

So despite the few nuts who would kill their characters to save themselves a stroll along the Sword Coast, I think many people would benefit more appropriately with a reduced death penalty system, whether it be less xp, no xp, spending time in the Fugue, gold penalty, or being given a number of choices between these things. I haven't been around much lately, but my guess is that the Eastern Cloakwoods is still an adventurer hotspot. People stay there until level 10 because they don't want to get their butts kicked at goblins because of the death penalty. Why does everyone grind delivery quests? Because there is a hefty possibility that the payout from killing enemies will actually be nonexistent or negative.

The other day I went alone into the Nashkel Mine with my Paladin. I was surprised to see the new look, and I was excited to see some of the new stuff. Having been a little rusty on playing and a little low on heal kits, I ended up badly wounded when two Rock Beasts used Earthquake, sent me to the ground, and pummeled me quite thoroughly. Without any kits left, my Lay On Hands exhausted, and a measly +1 Regen cloak, I decided I'd better rest. Unfortunately, I guess there is a new rule against resting wherever you please, which is fine, but forced me to call it quits, especially with the large number of traps I had run over at that point. I just logged out because I wasn't prepared to lose 2k xp, about 100 kills, just for doing a little additional exploring. I really would have liked to have kept playing my Paladin, but it just wasn't worth it. I was paralyzed by the fear of impending xp loss, and it stunk.

[Hoihe]

I am sure i am going to be hit for this... Puts ten Tower shields around him like the Tortoise formation would look like


Runescape.

Main article: Items Kept on Death

When a player dies, they will lose all items they were carrying at the time of their death except for the three or four items the player may select whilst in Limbo.

Now, without banks and all the sort, and the amount people carry, it'd surely crash our economy, BUT!

What about, depending on a priority list, we'd lose an item each time we die, or prehaps gold (explained as passerbies looting your body, your weapon falling into a rift, your bag gets cut open and potions spill, etc). Some items, with a certain value or higher, wouldn't be affected.

Now, to avoid random lootbags, the corpse would have a new choice "Loot body", and the random looter would receive the item lost. On what is stopping people from doing this? Their character's morals, for example Hoihe the Honourful would never take off the weapon of a dwarf he doesn't know, out of honour, while Nelene the Liar would quickly take the least nailed down ite and run with it.


Another side effect: Somehow stem the inflation & players becoming dragons in terms of hoarding items/gold.

I say this would prevent the items gained! Teleport with help of myrkul!

[stevebarracuda]

I wouldn't be surprised if they find ways to do the same with a death system that no longer costs xp. Some examples I can think of:

- A character acquires his tenth resilient troll hide from up north, but doesn't really feel like making the trip back to CK. He lets a troll kill him, then respawns at the FAI.

- A character is in the Vault of the Dead and finds an epic heavy plate that makes his character heavily encumbered. He doesn't want to leave it behind, so he lets a monster kill his character and respawns at Elfsong tavern, where he puts it on a mule.

Some of us on this thread are advocating for a new death system--not no death penalty at all--one that no longer takes XP when you die, but your toon acquires a -2 stat penalty to CON or STR (plus CHA...that's my particular wish as well) each time you die per 24 RL hours...or, server reset. I'd vote for 24 hours, so you can't just log on 1 hour before reset, do some crazy looting, die, then wait for reset to sell your new loot.

Losing XP is just a spanking, and no one really has to RP that lose because, as Catam points out, you don't delevel (which would be harsh but at least more realistic, since you could lose an a item req. level, for example, which would have to be RP'd).

I'm not trying to be a RP nazi or anything, instead, I think that if there is going to be a death penalty at all on BG, it should at least have some more-than-marginal effect on the toon for the temporary future...and negative stat hit would do the job.

I wonder what Void thinks of this idea?

[Xanfyrst]

If you're talking 'realistic' then it we should actually gain xp from death... dying is quite the experience, ya know

[Cristof]

Some of us on this thread are advocating for a new death system--not no death penalty at all--one that no longer takes XP when you die, but your toon acquires a -2 stat penalty to CON or STR (plus CHA...that's my particular wish as well) each time you die per 24 RL hours...or, server reset. I'd vote for 24 hours, so you can't just log on 1 hour before reset, do some crazy looting, die, then wait for reset to sell your new loot.

I can see the benefits to having a stat penalty instead of xp and would be in favor of switching. CON seems the most likely target, as it is what is reduced in PnP and everyone has and uses hit points. STR and DEX could also be an option, but then I worry about having too much of a penalty, especially when you suffer a technology related death (lag, timeout, crash, etc.) I would be completely against reducing INT, WIS or CHR because of their highly disproportionate impact on spellcasters.

I would worry about making the time based on RL, just because of potential clock issues. (e.g. quests) Keeping it until reset makes the most sense mechanically, but if there was an easy way to extend that to 12 hours or so, I'd go with that option. Why 12? Because if you die while playing one night, for example, you will have the penalty the rest of the night. But when you return the next day, you only have the RP ramifications.

[Hoihe]

And i suppose, priests for enough gold, say 5k, can remove it.

[Simian]

I have one epic character. The only time I go out 'adventuring' and see the 'epic/high-level content' is when players send me a tells that they've died and would not like to eat the experience penalty... So off I go... fully buffed and running like mad to fetch a corpse of someone my character does not know or would not even want to know.

I am aware that DMs frown upon such lack of role-playing... but considering how it takes place 24/7, frowning is pretty much all they can do.

(So yeah, I am in favor of of the ability score debuff. At least it gives something to role-play... you know, your character taking in a nasty hit and being all woozy and what not. Heck, a party that keeps on dying might decide it is time for them to crawl back to safety and have a drink at the local inn.

It seems so much better than swearing behind the screen and logging off for the day or two.)

[Blackbird]

So yeah, I am in favor of of the ability score debuff. At least it gives something to role-play... you know, your character taking in a nasty hit and being all woozy and what not. Heck, a party that keeps on dying might decide it is time for them to crawl back to safety and have a drink at the local inn.

This x1000. More RP please! If people are all suffering stat debuffs from dying, what are they going to do to get XP? RP! Whether it's at the campfire or at an inn/tavern (I would love to see more of this). People could trade stories about the orcs that jumped them from behind and almost hacked their arms off. In short, it would be awesome.

[Charraj]

I am aware that DMs frown upon such lack of role-playing... but considering how it takes place 24/7, frowning is pretty much all they can do.

Okay, well, considering how this is the second time I've seen players publicly flaunt their disregard of the rule against metagaming, the next time someone decides to do it, I'll personally dock five levels from them. *shrugs*

Thread locked.

[Charraj]

Unlocked.

Please bear in mind that nothing rustles my jimmies more than metagaming and flaunting the rules.

Carry on.

Edit: I unlocked the thread because of the points raised in this post.