PvP: Auto-consent and Transitions Suggestions

[Simian]

With my new computer, I luckily do not have to worry about hanging on transitions. I am often the first to appear on the other side, even when I've let the others to transition first.

But I still recall hanging on transition points, sometimes it took even several minutes at a time. Hence in my opinion, waiting for mere 10 seconds is not enough. In all fairness, I would wait until the horned devil had taken it's first step forwards, or emoted something.

[stevebarracuda]

They choose PVP every time they shapechange

Indeed, as per the rules. But my toons also kill Trolls, so next time I see a Troll, I mean Druid, I guess I'll just go kill it straight away.

Or, a leopard. Or, a dwarf pricking it's own blood to cast magic in my toons presence. Or, when a toon is running at mine, in the city, with shield and sword drawn. Or, fill in blank here.

Nonetheless, without hearing the elves side of the story, this is a skewed discussion.

[Catam]

So... Catam saw a horned devil and was about to switch to his blades... and me, the player, was actually trying to give the OP some time to load after the transitionand was ready to RP. Unfortunately I hit my expose weakness key with my bow still equipped, initiating the PvP a little earlier. To escape, the devil hit the transition. I followed through the transition and encountered the character again, still in devil form. I toggled hostile but did not have my cat set to follow or hold so it attacked. I hit the voice commands to hold him but by this point, his companion was attacking as well. After dropping the devil form in front of us, he went through our group to hit the transition to flee the scene a second time. I am not saying he did anything wrong, just detailing the event.

I sent a tell apologizing for the obviously failed PvP on my part. The player was understandably upset so I simply tried to let it go. So, to sum this up... my intent was to RP and not to be trigger happy in PvP as described by the OP but, due to simple misclicking, the PvP encounter was not very smooth for the characters and players.

I actually agree that players should take more time and be patient with both RP and PvP when near a transition. I often stop when I see the spell effects of someone transitioning or a door opening so we can see each other since we are actually walking the same path.

But the player knew we were in the area and that we were heading to the Frost Giant Keep... when we encountered him just inside the North Gate of Nashkel he even offered to follow us so he did not have to fight anything. Catam replied negatively to that idea so he stated he would just walk ahead and kill everything in front of us. Catam, two elves and the pre-devil shaped character were walking the same road from Nashkel to the Cloud Peaks basically with in view of each other. We went through the transition and set up camp to rest before continuing forward. Perhaps the the character should have considered his actions with a little more wisdom...

[Aeb Ankor]

This could have easily been prevented, if instead of strolling down the roadway as a Horned Devil, the simple spell of invisibility was used to run to the Lake.

Seems the intent was to actually hunt along the way in a form that is KOS, this player should have expected PVP from his choice, it took place near the transition unfortunately. But, it was a risk he picked in choosing to be KOS vs Invisible

[Ivan38Rus]

Last time I checked, druids have no access to invisibility spell.

[Catam]

Last time I checked, druids have no access to invisibility spell.

How about not being a devil when others are near that might attack such a creature??

[Simian]

Last time I checked, druids have no access to invisibility spell.

And the last time I checked, almost all Elves had about 8 charisma and Blind-sight/True seeing spell on for 24/7 to spot invisible "foes."

Moreover, if a player has chosen to hide the location of his or her character, the chances are that the character in question is an elf.

[Simian]

Edit: Wasn't fleeing through a transition point forfeiting all PvP?

[Aeb Ankor]

My non-caster melee types can't cast invisibility either and most carry enough invisibility potions, or with umd scrolls/ wands to get by.

I ran to the Lake earlier today with one of my melee characters alone using invisibility from items and had no troubles to avoid getting into pvp at the transitions or the fights with npcs.

[Catam]

Edit: Wasn't fleeing through a transition point forfeiting all PvP?

As in I should not have followed? A transition is just part of the game mechanics... why should it stop a character from following a devil down the road? Too many times a pick pocket has set himself up right at a transition to use it as an escape tool. Should a DM controlling a Flaming Fist guard stop at a transition when pursuing a criminal? This is the second time I heard the "Forfeit all PvP" comment... perhaps Simian can explain it further...

[Valefort]

The only RP out that I can think of here would be shapeshift back to human form. Fleeing probably isn't one since shapeshifting is already a PvP consent.

[Blackman D]

if you auto consent pvp in any way shape or form i dont think there is a "forfeit" route after pvp has been started till one side is dead (or in the case of sneaks you simply cant be found), the rp out comes before pvp starts

as stated the fist will not stop chasing you, ive been chased across three transitions by a DM, AND! i ran off the road and we hid behind rocks and he still found us so then we rolled H/MS and he rolled spot and failed (horribly) and went away

[Simian]

Now considering how 'normal players' do not have their bouts of PvP and attempts at Sleight of Hand right on top of the transition points, to even reach a transition point, one has to usually travel about half of the width or height of the area. At which point, I am usually more than inclined to let someone go.

Sure, some of my characters have maxed out their Survival, Spot, Search, Listen and spend a feat on the Track - hence I could present my demand to reasonably follow people to the ends of the earth. But racing through transitions is just not fun for me.

And although it has not mentioned in the current iteration of the PvP rules, many of our current and past Dungeon Masters have inclined that fleeing is forfeiting. However, it prompts up a question, what is actually fleeing?

For example, when my melee warrior flees, he simply runs away, yet, my wizardly assassin needs to run around hasted to maintain safe distance to fling his spells. Therefore, we can go back to the beginning of this post, and say that once someone has fled about half of the vertical or horizontal distance of the map, transitioned somewhere else, they have fled, and I have won or lost the bout of PvP.

---

The only RP out that I can think of here would be shapeshift back to human form. Fleeing probably isn't one since shapeshifting is already a PvP consent.

Back in the day when we had the Umberhulks and Bugbears in the Cloakwood mines, I used to level my wizards there transformed into a troll. It was a popular map, hence, changing back to human form every minute or so to avoid PvP is simply not feasible solution on a wizard. Hence, my 'troll' would flee and nice people would take it as a hint that I did not want to PvP. However, as always, there were few real life trolls who would insist on following and try to make me fulfill their odd PvP-fantasies.

[Catam]

Now considering how 'normal players' do not have their bouts of PvP and attempts at Sleight of Hand right on top of the transition points, to even reach a transition point, one has to usually travel about half of the width or height of the area. At which point, I am usually more than inclined to let someone go.

Sure, some of my characters have maxed out their Survival, Spot, Search, Listen and spend a feat on the Track - hence I could present my demand to reasonably follow people to the ends of the earth. But racing through transitions is just not fun for me.
And although it has not mentioned in the current iteration of the PvP rules, many of our current and past Dungeon Masters have inclined that fleeing is forfeiting. However, it prompts up a question, what is actually fleeing?
For example, when my melee warrior flees, he simply runs away, yet, my wizardly assassin needs to run around hasted to maintain safe distance to fling his spells. Therefore, we can go back to the beginning of this post, and say that once someone has fled about half of the vertical or horizontal distance of the map, transitioned somewhere else, they have fled, and I have won or lost the bout of PvP.

---

The only RP out that I can think of here would be shapeshift back to human form. Fleeing probably isn't one since shapeshifting is already a PvP consent.

Back in the day when we had the Umberhulks and Bugbears in the Cloakwood mines, I used to level my wizards there transformed into a troll. It was a popular map, hence, changing back to human form every minute or so to avoid PvP is simply not feasible solution on a wizard. Hence, my 'troll' would flee and nice people would take it as a hint that I did not want to PvP. However, as always, there were few real life trolls who would insist on following and try to make me fulfill their odd PvP-fantasies.

Gotcha, fleeing to end the conflict for some is completely understandable but in no way a rule under the PvP guidelines. If a thief wants to pick a pocket, he should expect that a mark might be overly zealous about his coin and willing to follow him to the ends of Toril... or our server... which ever comes first. The same should be true for someone who polymorphs and wanders a road knowing there are adventurers nearby... expect that one of them might hunt devils passionately. Unfortunately for those that Catam toggles hostile, his ranger radar HUD goes active... he hates thieves, loathes giants, despises demons and devils... though that is only that specific character. If it were Bak on the other hand... he'd chase you until he either hit you or was distracted by a cookie......

edit: typos

[Valefort]

Back in the day when we had the Umberhulks and Bugbears in the Cloakwood mines, I used to level my wizards there transformed into a troll. It was a popular map, hence, changing back to human form every minute or so to avoid PvP is simply not feasible solution on a wizard. Hence, my 'troll' would flee and nice people would take it as a hint that I did not want to PvP. However, as always, there were few real life trolls who would insist on following and try to make me fulfill their odd PvP-fantasies.

It all comes down to RP, some characters would pursue the troll who is shouting "Mommy" to kill him, some would let him. That has nothing to do with being nice imo, it's just RP.

What is that troll doing ? Calling for his friends ? Fleeing for his life ? Should we let him go away ? This is completely character dependant, and situation dependant.

Sure, as a player, you understand that the fleeing troll probably doesn't want to PvP but that's plain metagaming and for all you know he could be trying to bait you into a trap of some kind.