PvP: Auto-consent and Transitions Suggestions

[Valefort]

Nothing forbids you to RP hostility after they shapechanged back, you just have to let them an RP out.

[Krazy]

Why should shapechanging back to 'normal' form be an end to the hostilities

Because that is the rule we agree to when we play here.

Except you can attack a shapeshifted PC on sight, so... not really, consent given.

[Iso]

Except you can attack a shapeshifted PC on sight, so... not really, consent given.

It is a temporary and situational auto-consent. The very sentence giving permission to attack a Shifted PC revokes it as soon as they revert.

"This is PVP consent, unless you revert back to your natural form"

Assuming they're reverting as a means of a peace offering, that counts as attacking a player after they've taken an RP out.
And it also means you've broken the 24-hour PvP Aftermath block.

[Krazy]

Except you can attack a shapeshifted PC on sight, so... not really, consent given.

It is a temporary and situational auto-consent. The very sentence giving permission to attack a Shifted PC revokes it as soon as they revert.

"This is PVP consent, unless you revert back to your natural form"

Assuming they're reverting as a means of a peace offering, that counts as attacking a player after they've taken an RP out.
And it also means you've broken the 24-hour PvP Aftermath block.

Haha, don't make me laugh.

As a peace offering perhaps, don't mean I have to take it. No reason not to manipulate the changing back.

So a paladin chances on a warlock in devil form, attacks and the warlock changes back, "oh no good paladin, I was changed against my will, and you're too stupid to know that isn't true!". Warlock walks away happily.

Yay, care bears for all! Shapeshift with impunity, hide behind the pvp rules to get out of it.

Nicely done!

[Thorsson]

We should distinguish here between Paladins and Evil Shapes and other situations I hope...

[Iso]

This goes to show it, OP. New rules on the books wont stop people from breaking them for selfish reasons.

Take screenshots, have DMs nail them.
Worst to happen to you is you have to fight your way back to where you were and the DM negates the thing ever happening.

[Catam]

Unfortunately for those that Catam toggles hostile, his ranger radar HUD goes active... he hates thieves, loathes giants, despises demons and devils... though that is only that specific character. If it were Bak on the other hand... he'd chase you until he either hit you or was distracted by a cookie......

Necromancers not on list..... good

I refrained from including Necromancers... Catam has a secret crush on Morticia...

[Aeb Ankor]

Why should shapechanging back to 'normal' form be an end to the hostilities

Because that is the rule we agree to when we play here.

Yes I second this, it is in the PvP rules. If they unshift then reinitiate then that's another. Someone caught me off guard with that one day, B9 to the face lol.

I don't see that just changing back is the end of hostilities...

A character can hate shape-changers even in their natural form, and RP hostile to PVP and kill them.

Simply dropping the form does not mean the 24 hour rule is in effect, it is the SAME PVP/ Hostile situation if you choose and RP it as such. Many good or evil characters would be remise if they DIDN"T continue to attack a person they witnesses in Horned Devil form and proceed to capture them to report to the law or church, or if evil simply removing of the future threat to your person or group.

[TheVoid]

If you shapechange into an evil form and run into do-gooders who will treat you as a spawn you are at their mercy.

You can shift back, but they don't have to regard it as a peace offering to cease hostilities. They can always assumed you CHOSE to take that form out of the hundreds of other forms that are not associated with devilry, evil, savagery, and misery to all sentient life.

Hopefully, most will be aligned to give you an opportunity to speak and explain yourself if they even care at all. Personally, I have quite a few characters that are NG, LG, CG that would just keep attacking, then I have characters that are neutral and will just be .. meh... or even a few evils that will either keep attacking, be meh..., or might want to help you.

Basically, like summoning undead or evil companions you put yourself at the mercy of others RP when they make first contact with your character. If they are goodly and you are an evil shape they know to be evil, they cannot break character just because your are a PC.

Although it is not required to give a heads up before attacking a hostile form, it is good form and an overall courteous act that we expect from mature players when they engage in hostilities with their peers shapechanged or not. Pwning someone just because you caught them with their pants down makes people assume negative things about what kind of player you are which I don't think any player would want to be associated with.

If you just click and pwn as a default to any advantageous scenario that you come across without any nuisance of RP, you should expect grief, bitterness, and anger to come of the situation. Nothing good comes from this, so at least try to type a few words or emote because a few seconds of communication can save everyone hours of grief.

[Hoihe]

To void's post... Even Emoting the first attack can make it better overall.


*notches an arrow and points it at the X, then lets it fly*

[gfya1369]

In accordance with the transitions.. I think it is as with most things in PvP a way to get a one up on another. I don't agree with it at all. RP should be the defining factor not mechanics created by having to transition. I mean if you think on it the person would be walking up, and you would see them (if you take away the transition everywhere on the server and it was just free walk. But due to lag and area sizes this is impossible to do). It seems a bit more realistic to give the player a moment to react, do something, before going guns hot (or fireballs hot). Yes in shapeshifted form the player is giving auto concent, yes according to the rules you have every right to boomshock them with the holy stick of thunder.. Me, I'd give them a moment to respond first, or use a non Dmg spell or ability to hold them, or incapacitate them so they can have a chance to respond.

I know some characters would BOOM with the quickness. But ask yourself in a world of magic, when something looks odd like a badger comming up to you in a crowded area not foaming at the mouth with rabies.. don't you think it might be someone in a shape? I guess that's dependent on the inteligence, wisdom and experiences of the character on whether they'd know of druids, or certain spells. I just like to give a chance with the shapeshifting thing. Also true seeing is your friend, if you have it on and you blast someone in Shaped form rply you are commiting murder as you would know thats not a real monster but a person under a spell..

just food for thought..

[Hoihe]

To gfya's post:


On giving chance to respond..

going with my:

*notches an arrow and points it at the X, then lets it fly*

When they reply with something like:

*shields itself with Y*

initiate pvp, everyone is ready and done with transitioning.

[gfya1369]

That works too

I tend to over explain.. guess I just like the look of my own font LOL

[Simian]

Also true seeing is your friend, if you have it on and you blast someone in Shaped form rply you are commiting murder as you would know thats not a real monster but a person under a spell..

Except that the True Seeing part you are referring to is in the PnP spell, not in it's NWN2 counterpart. Therefore, I'm afraid you just have to accept if someone under True Seeing refuses to see that the Cornugon is in fact a shapechanged Warlock/Druid/Spirit Shaman/Wizard or Sorcerer.

The PnP use of spells would dictate that the Cornugon in question would have to provide you with rather descriptive emotes on what they looked like before casting the spell, and most people are not doing that even if you ask them nicely.

Hence, True Seeing is not a spell I use very often. I would only use it pre-emptively on Dungeon Master Events, which I am already quite good at avoiding.


Anyhow, how my Spirit Shaman deals with these Shapechanged/Wildshaped buggers... He ignores them, runs in the other direction, and if they follow, he throws rocks at them. (Very few take the hint of going elsewhere, but rather start to scream the bloody murderer.)

[CremeSoda]

. . . They can always assumed you CHOSE to take that form out of the hundreds of other forms that are not associated with devilry, evil, savagery, and misery to all sentient life.

. . . Basically, like summoning undead or evil companions you put yourself at the mercy of others RP when they make first contact with your character. If they are goodly and you are an evil shape they know to be evil, they cannot break character just because your are a PC.

But that's just it. They can choose to assume we're evil and attack because we assume monstrous forms, but we can't choose to become something non-offensive. Sadly, Solars aren't a Shapechange option; only giants, a devil, a nightwalker, and a golem.

Shapeshifting isn't like summoning undead because the latter is always an attempt to raise the undead, while the former only results in kill-on-sight because we can't actually choose the things we'd want to turn into due to the mechanical limitations of the game.

As for breaking character, *Knocks an arrow, preparing to fire at the devil*, isn't so much breaking character as it is showing players some OOC consideration due to the mechanical limitations of NWN2. And isn't it required that we somewhat break character anyway when it comes to PvP? Bandit PCs can't run around killing lowbies for their gold, after all. They still require consent and actual RP. That's all I want for shifters.

Failing that, replacing those stupid giants with a Solar and Titan (both good aligned) and giving the Polymorph crowd a Trumpet Archon or some-such might be a decent alternative.