Ilphryssin Arkentlar, Player Character Or City Magistrate?

[Kenshin]

Let me start off by saying that I think highly of Rasael, as a person, as a player, and for his work on this server. Additionally, I have enjoyed the time I have spent role-playing with him in the Seventh Circle.

I am, however, a little unclear as to what role his character, Ilphryssin Arkentlar, has been given in the government of Sshamath. I am aware that the Seventh Circle and the Temple of Lolth have each been given a seat on the Conclave. I have harbored reservations about such a scheme as not only did this represent a significant departure from lore but it also created authority positions for player guilds which, I have been told, is something that the staff specifically wishes to avoid. Regardless of any personal misgivings, however, I can see how such a setup serves to drive factional role-play in the setting.

Through a number of Rasael's recent forum posts it seems that Ilphryssin is now making official pronouncements and actively taking a high profile role in city policy. Perhaps this is part of a DM plot or Ilphryssin is simply serving as a figurehead for the Conclave. That said, from where I stand, a player pronouncing an official sanction on another player from a different guild does not look like a promising course. I don't wish to be overly dramatic but this could easily prove a slippery slope.

I hope I am wrong and that my concern is baseless. Still, I feel that some clarification in this matter might be useful.

[Lockonnow]

There no doubt about Rasael and evening Rasael about the BG staff iam sure they can give hell in RP

[TheVoid]

The Seventh Circle works closely with the Conclave on a mercantile level. Rasael is seated as a member of the conclave that reprents mercantile matters and to a limited extent policy in the city. He is not the administrator or legistlature or judicial branch of the conclave. He can decrie that justice must be pursued as he is a member of the conclave but whether or not that gets enforced is ENTIRELY UP TO THE STAFF.

We decide what is in context and what is not in context and also the method it will be handled if at all. This goes for both the lothian side of the conclave and any other player guild. There opinions on the subject are not law, though at times they can be analogous to what is actually a very obvious course of action.

Unlike the Fist in the past, DMs are not at the beck and call of those that were empowered to oppress other players that may have broke IC rules or sleighted a Law enforcement PC IC or OOC.

DM Absolution was the one that ran the event independent of any player cohersion. He witnessed the events that transpired that led to consequences to the responsible party as did members of other guilds within the event, who promptly reported them to their guild leaders. Absolution already conferred with me and the rest of the DM staff that he was to pursue a course of action that delivered suitable consequences to the offending PC's actions. I approved.

However, other guilds who are not in my control decided to spread the news earlier than the DM team and made it their own plot to denounce the actions of another rival guild.

We did not encourage, enforce, or sanction open PvP or GvG nor did we infer that the player decree was supported by the DM staff and in any way empowered to carry out punitive action against the offender.

[Kenshin]

Thank you for your reply, Void.

So far as the example you cite there has been no lack of transparency and events played out in a predictable fashion. I took part in last week's event that led to today's proceedings and am fully cognizant that DM Absolution was in control and that the player in question was not only not railroaded but, in fact, treated with a measure of leniency.

That said, I still believe that having the head of one guild role-play the sentencing magistrate pronouncing the fate of the head of a rival guild simply does not look good. Even the mere appearance of a potential conflict of interest damages to some extent the perception of staff impartiality.

Great strides have been made to grant equitable treatment to all players on the server during your administration of the DM team and I don't believe that the situation in the Underdark necessarily imperils this. Nevertheless, the existence of some form of a firewall between player characters and authority figures exercising power would be a welcome illustration of where the player role ends and the staff role begins.

[DM Strahd]

You're only partially informed. Rasael's character is not the government of Sshamath, the situation is very different: the Grandmaster of the 7th Circle has a Conclave Seat (to be sure, ONLY until they keep fulfilling their side of the bargain...), and at the moment, Ilphryssin is the Grandmaster in charge. The Conclave seats are several, so the staff still decides. Two of them are Temple of Lolth NPCs, for instance (one per lore, one we created in the recent campaign).

Ilphryssin did not exercise power over anybody. He just sided with the majority of the Conclave (DM Absolution and TheVoid) and pronounced a sentence that was to come. There is no staff role in this. It's like any other guild leader commenting on something happening by authority (DM/NPC) decree.

Clearer?

[Lockonnow]

Can a Drow follow Ao?

[Rasael]

Yes, basically I was a vocal piece - but that's politics. There are no player run policing factions, positions or guilds. DM's have historically facilitated characters being into politics though - so long as the roleplay path is developed.

[Storm Munin]

I do agree with the OP and the answers we have been given.


But actually..its very fitting that Ilphryssin made the statement.

Why?
Because as I recall things Ilphryssin negotiated for the Maw to hold sshamathan defensive territory as official guardians against the Oghrann beasts. Thus giving his assurances to the conclave as to Shur's trustworthyness.

Then Shur apparently killed a representative of the conclave.

Politically, id therefore say Ilphryssin had to be the one to deliver the sentence in order to save his own face while also showing the other seats he will act against his own agenda in order to protect the conclave as a whole.


My two pennies.

P.S.
Lilith is very sceptical of the whole affair by the way, the cursed one left the city barely touched by the drow populance.
An oddity as bright as darkness that, an entire city of drow given the offer to show their devotion to the conclave by beating someone up to the degree of barely being alive and...he gets a few kicks and a lashing.

Something smells like elf in all this.

[TheSpaniard]

I took part in last week's event that led to today's proceedings and am fully cognizant that DM Absolution was in control and that the player in question was not only not railroaded but, in fact, treated with a measure of leniency.

Maybe. OOC I was stuck in a room for a whole week, unable to leave for anything but OOC reasons, and at level 30 I play to RP with Shur, not do things OOC. No offense to Absolution, but I could have been dragged through the city on Monday and not waited until Saturday.

Shur had already known that he and Olath were to be exiled, and considering IG time, he and Olath were in jail for a good four months. That's how we played it when we had visitors. As for the event on Saturday, I felt it was redundant, I would gladly return any reward so that it could have had some RP, and not just involve us listening to someone go over things again, things which we already knew. IC, i had nothing to RP unless something external happened, as the Maw's mages were ordered not to intervene unless something extreme happens (Ie grab us and teleport away).

It felt, and to quote Olath, "anti-climatic." Again, this is no way a criticism of the players or DM involved, just my observations about the whole thing. Besides that, it's been an interesting turn of events which will lead to a lot of good RP to any interactions we have.

As for the listening to the sword, it could have gone either way . . . I just thought it'd be more fun to RP Shur in a somewhat weakened state, recent events taking their toll on him because of the "war" against the Temple, hunting the Cult, and just then, fighting a Shadow Dragon. He is susceptible, foolhardily taking the blade thinking he can gain mastery over it, however, he becomes infatuated as soon as he grabs it, so when the spirits eventually begin to speak to him, he sees no reason to deny them.

Since it is a Moonblade, by all intents and purposes, Shur should have died after the Conclave confiscated the weapon. However, I am being told it's a corrupt moonblade, which would explain Shur still breathing.

[Rasael]

Concerning In character knowledge of the sentence:
As far as in Character knowledge goes, Shur was in a holding cell so I don't see how could have learned anything of his fate. You mean you knew out of characterly? (A cell ofcourse doesn't allow you to receive sendings, its a prison meant to house mages after all)


Concerning the treatment and sentence:
I think the treatment was very lenient by Drow standards btw, considering the crime and the setting It'd be fully possible that criminals are just left in jail indefinetely. There's certainly no consideration for the time a criminal spends in jail, they are the criminals after all. Out of sight, out of mind is a perfect solution in that regard.

(Consideration for the rights of criminals is a hallmark of modern society and has no place in Drow society, not even human society in Faerun has much concerns for criminal's "rights". They have none. Western societies didn't begin to have any till late in the 19th century)

I think the fact the prison time wasn't longer was more due to the fact its a game, to keep it fun for the parties involved. But The consequences are fully in line with what would happen on surface (and has happened) if you killed a ranking Fist officer for example. (assuming you didn't get a perma death strike and had a decent excuse)

The timing is up to the DM, but the prison time was fully consistent with previous such occurances on the server

As I related in the judgement, the punishment normally would be death to satisfy the house of the deceased and societal sentiments on the matter. (of the crime and being caught).

Shur had already known that he and Olath were to be exiled, and considering IG time, he and Olath were in jail for a good four months. That's how we played it when we had visitors. As for the event on Saturday, I felt it was redundant, I would gladly return any reward so that it could have had some RP, and not just involve us listening to someone go over things again, things which we already knew. IC, i had nothing to RP unless something external happened, as the Maw's mages were ordered not to intervene unless something extreme happens (Ie grab us and teleport away).

That's great, except you can't teleport in S'shamath. The Mythal blocks it unless you petitioned for and received a licence

[TheSpaniard]

I think the fact the prison time wasn't longer was more due to the fact its a game, to keep it fun for the parties involved. But The consequences are fully in line with what would happen on surface (and has happened) if you killed a ranking Fist officer for example. (assuming you didn't get a perma death strike and had a decent excuse)

The timing is up to the DM, but the prison time was fully consistent with previous such occurances on the server

As I related in the judgement, the punishment normally would be death to satisfy the house of the deceased and societal sentiments on the matter. (of the crime and being caught).

I understand, and I know people who've been in jail for much longer than I have (Randall comes to mind). As it is a game, however, I disagree that it's absolutely necessary to dole out a prison sentence that I actually serve. I was more than compliant on the matter, this is just my person belief. You could have tortured him, said he was in jail for months, or even tried to execute him. I knew the possibilities of what could have transpired for killing the emissary, and I was ready to accept the consequences.

That's great, except you can't teleport in S'shamath. The Mythal blocks it unless you petitioned for and received a licence

You can, I've teleported into and out of S'shamath on numerous occasions. Gloura's is warded, but I've been able to in the streets, as well as in the School of Mages.

[Rasael]

I know you can teleport there in game, it's because those areas were not marked as warded while they should have been. In a DM event it wouldn't have worked because the School is in S'shamath and covered by the Mythal. (so the DM would have prevented it - which is fair I think because players can read about the mythal and its effects on this sub-forum)

In characterly the Mythal prevents unauthorized teleportation anywhere into and from S'shamath.

(Other interiors have this problem as well, not only in S'shamath either)

I'll put this in the bug list

[DM_Absolution]

Sorry for waiting to make a post here, but regarding what Shur said about the event being anti-climatic, i can't but apologize. I had larger plans for the event, but sadly last week i worked a lot of overtime at work, and simply did not have the time to put those plans into motion. It may sound unbelievable but i also have a RL to tend to, as well as a GF that demands a good portion of my time. I could have delayed the event by a few days and made it a proper event, but i got a feeling you were already fed up with remaining in the prison IC longer, so it had to happen when it did.

Second, there will be several follow up events to this, and i have some loose ideas about what is to happen there, but once again this will take some time.

I am trying to spread myself out to accomodate as many people as i can, by hosting events during different times of the day so US players may participate in my events.

And also considering this was my first event that had some political effect, i was a bit nervous to overplay it, since i am a new DM and don't want to make huge changes to Sshamath or it's politics. I wanted to wait with hosting such events until later, but i was kinda forced into hosting this since my previous event was the cause for it to happen. (Though not planned)

[Servin]

It may sound unbelievable but i also have a RL to tend to, as well as a GF that demands a good portion of my time.

She should stop draining your levels like that! Don't tell me she demands you to make her irl events for her too... eh?

[Rasael]