Paladin and Ranger Variants

[dzidek1983]

yeah... the quoted proposition is good for 1/2 CL paladins and rangers with gimped spellbook choices
but here on the server dropping your spells for those abilities is plain stupid

if a paladin would ever drop a spell book he would need some powerfull abilities like the ones the kits classes had in BG2 like the inquisitor with free true sight and epic dispel

or the ranger archer with bonus to ranged ab and dmg scaling with level

[Simian]

Dzidek, those could be handled via bonus feats at levels 4, 8, 11, and 14.
It would allow rangers to more of their class specific feats.

[dzidek1983]

yea yea i know what your up to there Simian ups i mean Montaron

i just suggest that if we make some "kits" for base classes then lets offer something special not just bonus feats

[Enaylius]

yea yea i know what your up to there Simian ups i mean Montaron

i just suggest that if we make some "kits" for base classes then lets offer something special not just bonus feats

I would disagree. Four extra feats is very strong and is a viable alternative over the limited spells a ranger would receive. If I made a pure ranger I would much rather have four or five extra feats. A player can always find a cleric or wizard to provide wards.

[dzidek1983]

really? you would take 4 extra feats over +1 AB and Dmg / per 4 levels with bows for a ranger archer?

[Simian]

I would disagree. Four extra feats is very strong and is a viable alternative over the limited spells a ranger would receive. If I made a pure ranger I would much rather have four or five extra feats. A player can always find a cleric or wizard to provide wards.

It is viable, but do consider that we have an expanded Ranger Spell list here on the server. A ranger has access to +5 Natural Armor and and +4 Deflection from the custom spells. Therefore, allowing them to focus their Amulet, Ring, and Cloak slots into equipment that further enchance the ranger's ability. And let's not forget about the extended duration of Blades of Fire, Bear's Endurance for additional hitpoints, Cat's Grace for additional AC and possibly AB, Mass Curse of Impending Blades, a spell that offers no save, and Freedom of Movement.

While the loss of these spells doesn't hurt nearly as much as Paladin's loss of spellbook, the price is there to be paid. A ranger without access to the spell book has to raise his or her ability scores much higher than a ranger who has access to the spellbook.

Yes, people make do without the spell book, but the fact remains, Wisdom of 11 +3 Wisdom item gives out much more than what you loose.

[Valefort]

And rangers can teleport through spells too. Losing spells is a big deal.

[Enaylius]

really? you would take 4 extra feats over +1 AB and Dmg / per 4 levels with bows for a ranger archer?

I just went through the custom spells. A spell like that does not exist. If you are talking about a custom feat, then no. I wouldn't want any ranged character to have an extra +1 AB and +1 damage per four levels. Ranged characters should not be able to touch melee characters. In fact, this game is easy enough as it is. It is extremely disappointing that most on here seem to be focused on higher and higher levels of character power instead of diversity. You add content for diversity, not to make Epic super characters. I would guarantee that a number people taking ranger would indeed take 4-5 extra feats over spells. I certainly would.

[Simian]

Why add a variant no one wants to use?

There are players on our server who long for non-spellcasting characters. At the moment, they're stuck at Fighter, Swashbuckler, Rogue and Monk. Why not add Paladin and Rogue variants to that list?

[Rasael]

*ponders*

Sounds like there is some entheusiasm for these variants in the proposed form. Anything we can do to enhance that?

What would you give as a feat in stead of Weapon Finesse?

[Atlas]

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[omnilicious]

I was actually asking for that paladin variant as part of a recent thread. Did not think anyone wanted it but me (at least from the posts there it seems everyone wants the regular one).

If this is going to be an option it would be awesome (though I would have to RCR again GRRRRR).

To makeup for lack of spells/feats maybe:

5: Deities Favored Weapon Focus
6: Bless Weapon (always active if possible, I think is how the complete warrior had it)
9: Weapon Spec/Sanctify Strikes (I never want to see cleave without power attack pre-req )
11: Divine Might
13: Extra Smite/Divine Shield?
16: Holy Sword
21: EDM/Great Smite/Bonus Feat? (maybe give special pally bonus feat options that include those 2 feats and Great CHA/STR like the Champion includes Great WIS).
24: Bonus Feat (or the other feats listed above)

I am by no means an expert in balance. Even with all these additions in the end I think a regular spell powered paladin would be more powerful, this would just require less preparation. Doesn't have as much raw (always on) power as a fighter, but stronger activated abilities.

[Rasael]

The current variants get 3 feats and 1 Epic feat. I submitted these for public testing in this form. I expect that if its too weak we can empower it - but I'd rather submit something that is a bit weak than something that is too strong.

Tweaking down classes tends to make people feel bad, while tweaking them up makes them happy. It ends in the same result but the journey there is more pleasant.

I hope it will go live in this form. But it may not make it and require more indoor discussions first.

[Rainbow Prism]

Rasael, with all due respect, I think you should not be catering to greedy players.

Yes, the classes do not get spellcasting, but they still get ability to use scrolls of ranger and cleric/paladin spells. Not to mention paladins still retain their most powerfull buffes that use Turn Undead and rangers have their scaling with levels animal companions.

I am eager to see the classes substitution levels IG, but I think they are okay as they are without adjusting.

[Atlas]

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