What is the best build for Pvp and PvM in your opinion?

[mrieder79]

"Best" is defined as "will win in the most number of circumstances".

I was thinking a Druid27/Shadowdancer3. You have spellcasting, dragon shape, spotting, HIPS (with camoflage and spells to enhance). This covers a wide number of situations and possibilities.

[Ivan38Rus]

Any character with 100+ Heal potions.

EDIT: Okay, but seriously, PvP discussions in NWN2 tend to be based around "what if my opponent is a complete tool ..."
There is no such thing as this build pwns them all simply because of the sheer variety of spells available to casters.

[Simian]

If I am playing against a 'smart player' - against myself in otherwords - the only thing that determines the winner is whose build was designed to defeat what.

This is why that Shadowdancer Crossbower of mine defeats a Hipsing Arcane Scholar, presuming that the mage doesn't have high enough detection skills. ( Winning PvP is all about hitting hot keys. All people can learn how to press buttons. )

[Passiflora]

As I always say, the one who wins is the one who wasn't scratching his nose while the other one is when the pvp starts. (:

[Seymor]

The best pvp builds are

DC-based Red Wizard -- Follows the same logic as the spirit shaman pvp build, get high DC's so that nothing can resist then just one hit. The advantage is wizards can quicken a spell breach and therefore get their spell off through a spell mantle earlier, they then can quicken bigby's which saves another 3 seconds. Basically, wizards win in 6 seconds due to quicken.

Oh, I worked a bit on the highest DC's possible on the server and found that Red Wizard cheese is involved in getting a DC 45 Dominate Monster -- I believe the highest DC on the server.

Conjuration focused, DC-based Spirit Shaman 27/Dragonslayer 3 -- Can throw out ~DC 44 Reflex save or Stun Storm of Vengeance all day long. Druids can reach the same DC but lacks the revive and has harder access to UMD. Can use Drow as Charisma race, which is better than grey orcs for druids due to spell resistance. There is very little that can survive a disjunction followed by a storm of vengeance. HiPS doesn't help, spell mantle doesn't help, etc.

The best pvm builds are

Lowest Level (1-3):
Charisma based Human Cleric with Sacred Purification

Low Level (4-10):
Crossbow sniper Dex-based hin

Mid Level (11-20):
Bear Warrior Barbarians
Dwarven Defender Fighters

High Levels (21-27):
EDM Bard/Blackguard/Dread Pirate
Favored Soul/Blackguards
Weapon Master/FB/Fighter/Rogue
Bard/Dread Pirate/FB/Fighter

Max Levels (27-30):
Dragonshaped Druids

[mrieder79]

That is impressive seymor. I never guessed that a wizard would be able to get a higher DC than a Druid.

[Knightmare]

If I was to create a PvP build which could win most scenarios, it would probably be:
wizard (10), arcane scholar (10), blood magus (7), shadow dancer (3)

Dual wielding greater shortswords of stealth, it'll have 80+ hide, HiPS and bigby 6 and 9. That's the recipe to overcome most builds.

[Maverick 40]

If I was to create a PvP build which could win most scenarios, it would probably be:
wizard (10), arcane scholar (10), blood magus (7), shadow dancer (3)

Dual wielding greater shortswords of stealth, it'll have 80+ hide, HiPS and bigby 6 and 9. That's the recipe to overcome most builds.

Dedicated Druids would have a listen around 60-65, that plus 5 for stillness and the 20 listen check means you are basically busted. Then they hit you with a 40 DC plus swamp lung, cast regenerate on their already 700 plus HP dragon form and you have one choice, to run. I don't see your caster getting through their HP fast enough

[Knightmare]

1. Quicken spell mantle.
2. Quickened shadow door.
3. Shadow simulacrum.
4. Watch the dragon-shaped druid fight itself while I buff up in safety.
5. Avasculate.
6. Vampiric feast.

That should put the druid in a world of pain. Unless the druid gets me first with its vampiric feast.

[Maverick 40]

Swamp Lung at that DC vs a mages fort save=Vampiric Feast without the regeneration and he will still have the Vamp kill button

[Simian]

10 (Base)
+1 (Spell Casting Prodigy)
+9 (Spell Level)
+3 (Epic Spell Focus)
+4 (Epic Caster Bonus)
+5 (Starting Charisma of 20)
+3 (+7 Charisma ability increases)
+3 (+5 Great Charisma Feats)
+2 (Potion of Eagle's Splendor)
+4 (Blood Magic, remember also that this option causes '3 + 9d8' worth of self induced damage.)
= 44

A wisdom based Druid 27/Dragon Slayer 3 can reach the DC of 44, thanks to the Spell Owl's Insight. And as a result, this druid has more spells than our Charisma based Spirit Shaman above.

Moreover, The Spirit Shaman build has UMD skill of 29 before items. To use a scroll of Disjunction, you need to beat the skill DC of 34 (25 + 9). I suppose the success chance of 75% without items is manageable.

But as for surviving a Storm of Vengeance... You simply use a gust of Wind Wand on an existing storm. And when the caster is casting it, you simply run out of the way.

@Maverick 40:
As for defeating that Dragon Shaped druid, you should give a try at Dire Charging Frenzied Weapon Masters.

There is a always a build that defeats your build.

@Knightmare:
True Seeing should see the Shadow Door. Haven't tried these custom spells, but it says so in the description. True seeing for Druids is a level seven spell that lasts one minute per caster level and it can be extended.

Now, if druid has that spell on both himself and and on his animal companion, after the moment you cast your mantle, those two are already running towards you and have probably reached you by the time you finish off casting your Quickened Shadow Door.

Om-nom-nom, Shadow Dancing Blood Scholar tastes good?

[Knightmare]

PvP is highly circumstantial. It really depends on who gets off to the best start. And if we're now starting to factor in pre-buffs, it's a different equation entirely.

A swamp lung would be ineffective vs. a caster with mantle up. A greater spell mantle (quickened from scarification) can withstand numerous magical attacks before it collapses.

[TheVoid]

It's all about the player not the build or gear really.

If you are always prepared for PvP you will more likely survive it. I've seen the most UNLIKELY to excel builds pwn in PW PvP simply because the player / character takes every freaking percaution to have a head start if PvP or PvM should just drop on them.

Notice the ones that excuse themselves from social RP whence their wards begin to expire, they are the ones prepared to pwn if crap hits the fan. They are expecting it or trolling for it.

There is no such thing as "one build to rule them all" in the hands of an idiot such a build could be beaten by an opposing character 5-10 levels lower. Ivan, is absolutely correct the sheer variety of options and skill of opponents makes it so the outcome is not always predetermined in every situation. Some builds and play styles might be more successful but that should be looked at on an individual basis and not a general basis.

[Maverick 40]

Simian,

Firstly, this is not my Druid. Second, the lvl 30 Druid I know is crit immune, so how is a weapon master supposed to be effective. Third, I watched a lvl 30 Ranger with Bane against the Druid's race, favored power attack, improved power attack, and expose not do squat against him. In fact, my level 30 gish, the level 30 ranger, a fighter/sor/arcane/elemental archer and finally one epic ranger/assassin/elemental archer took damn near five minutes to take this one PC down, when he had already wasted all his spells.

I'm sorry, you do not dissuade me, I don't deal in hypotheticals

[Valefort]

But what is the damage of said dragon shaped druid ? Because, sure, it's hard to kill, but on the other hand it won't kill you before a long time if your saves are high enough.

As far as I know for an equally prepared WM/FB a dragon shaped druid is like a tree, you chop it down slowly, but he won't kill you.