Make Warlock application only

[Hitman Hard]

We are pretending, there are only 70 people online, how many of those are warlocks? Definitely not enough to make it application only. What about all those NPCS walking around who are clearly not warlocks, ever though of that?

[Charraj]

Edit: Oh, I see what you mean. But the goal behind the application-only idea was not to cut down on the number of Warlocks. The concern is not that there are too many Warlocks. The concern is that people are not playing Warlocks in an IC manner.

[Deathgrowl]

We are pretending, there are only 70 people online, how many of those are warlocks? Definitely not enough to make it application only. What about all those NPCS walking around who are clearly not warlocks, ever though of that?

As has been said before, the amount of warlocks isn't the problem. It's the fact that most of them don't know the lore behind it.

[Hitman Hard]

I LIKE all the new warlocks. It makes it more interesting. Now the OSR and the other good guilds can have something to monitor and talk about. God help us if we run out of evil to fight against! I find the encounters I have had with warlocks to be quite fun and invigorating.

This isn't the point at all. People may play as evil as they want. It's not about that. It's all the terribly OOC warlocks grinding, and running all the time, without any knowledge or understanding of the lore behind their class. That is the problem.

Now change the word 'warlock' with any other class name and I dare to say the sentence makes as much sense as before.

I like the word warlock, we would be going against pen and paper DND.

[Hitman Hard]

We are pretending, there are only 70 people online, how many of those are warlocks? Definitely not enough to make it application only. What about all those NPCS walking around who are clearly not warlocks, ever though of that?

As has been said before, the amount of warlocks isn't the problem. It's the fact that most of them don't know the lore behind it.

Maybe the DM's should do that education camp idea I read in this post or the other, it seems silly to restrict potential people from playing the class just because their new. Having said that, i read the whole story on Asmodeus this morning and found it pretty fascinating.

[Servin]

Have you read through the discussion from today? We've somewhat established that lack of server lore and player quality have no connection to the class being played.

[Charraj]

This isn't the point at all. People may play as evil as they want. It's not about that. It's all the terribly OOC warlocks grinding, and running all the time, without any knowledge or understanding of the lore behind their class. That is the problem.

Now change the word 'warlock' with any other class name and I dare to say the sentence makes as much sense as before.

I like the word warlock, we would be going against pen and paper DND.

I think Servin meant that can be applied to any class, not just Warlocks.

it seems silly to restrict potential people from playing the class just because there new.

Yeah. When I was new, I learned that my IC actions had IC consequences from more experienced RPers who paid me the courtesy of taking my RP seriously.
So I think the most constructive thing for players to do is to respond and RP in as IC a manner as possible.

Have you read through the discussion from today? We've somewhat established that lack of server lore and player quality has no connection to the class being played.

Well, I still think that some classes are more demanding than others, in terms of lore knowledge and whatnot. But it's true that eventually, every player needs to learn lore of some kind to stay IC. For example, the hypothetical Fighter in the UD that you brought up earlier.

[Servin]

Oh no doubt (that's why I wrote - somewhat) there are classes more demanding lore than others. Mishaps in lack of lore can be more striking with a warlock than a fighter like brought up earlier. Yet at the end of the day, grinding will be grinding, and PvP'ing will be PvP'ing, no matter the char you play.

Is it a reason to restrict a class from being played?

I don't think so. I think it's barking on the wrong tree, because the quality of RP from the given player will remain same, whether warlock or fighter. It's just with a warlock, there is a chance that if he gets packed a wallop in the face a few times for being a menace, the learning process will speed up

Sink or swim.

[Eden]

Is it a reason to restrict a class from being played?

I agree, that's the problem. If we made a base class application only, one will mean to limitate players' freedom. To gain what? I don't think it's a good trade. Other ways should be chosen, amd that's not fair that all warlocks players pay for other's faults.

[Catam]

I think the background choice idea given earlier will at least make some players creating a warlock think about what it is to be a warlock. Maybe even inspire them do a bit of research before making their decision.

If nothing else, I think this entire discussion has produced some very positive results. Thank you Enaylius and everyone involved. It is good to see a healthy discussion like this for a change.

Some other warlock related threads:

Valid reasons for a druid/warlock?

Warlock Lore - Must Read

[scriver]

Going back to the mechanical side for a second. Fighters get a "Fighter Bonus Feat" at character creation, where they choose from the usual fighter feats. Would it be possible to give Warlocks a similar bonus feat at chargen, except they only get to choose between different pacts?

If so, we could put some info about pacts and such in respective feat description. It would be practically no more bothersome than any usual chargen but still increase the chances of people learning some of the lore.

[dzidek1983]

i like the pact choice on lvl 1

even if it would be a death sentence (from DM hands) i would still choose infernal when it comes to RP

actually i will make a warlock WHEN THIS COMES IN.... as it will make the character even better and interesting to play

[Darksider_war]

I agree, that's the problem. If we made a base class application only, one will mean to limitate players' freedom. To gain what? I don't think it's a good trade. Other ways should be chosen, amd that's not fair that all warlocks players pay for other's faults.

to quote Winston Churchill, "the main drawback of freedom of speech can be discovered by simply chatting for five minutes with the average person". Making a class application only would limitate players' freedom, aye, but would also help to avoid some monstrosities we are seeing as of late. Because really, things like an aasimar warlock are a huge monstrosity from an rp perspective.

And I'd prefer to curb the freedom of the players rather than having to see such mostrosities as the ones I am currently seeing with almost all of the new warlocks running around. And before someone replies with "but there are clerics/rogues/whatever running around", well, clerics are policed by the staff if they stray too much, rogues do not draw their powers from sovranatural beings, and wizards/sorcerers lose their connection to the weave only VERY rarely (and only if Mystra gets pissed off with them).

Considering what has already transpired, the class needs to be policed one way or the other. So, whether warlocks are made KOS as soon as they go blasting (and I wouldn't mind such a resolution, but then again, that would cause huge tons of griefing and issues with people griefing on both sides), or can be legally prosecuted (Captured, brought to the fist, then executed or whatever, as long as the dms don't make them get out of detention the day after), or the class is made application only, I don't really care as long as results are obtained.

Making the class application-only is something that can easily be done, and is indeed already done for RWs and their Knights. IMO, it worked wonderfully to promote the RP of those Thayan classes.

So I agree that something should be done. Warlock levels are currently being taken for the OOC build benefits, but the lore behind warlocks is too complex and has too many IC ramifications for that kind of playing style. This was the same rationale for making RWs application-only, so I think it's reasonable to do it for warlocks.

totally agreed.

[Hitman Hard]

I agree, that's the problem. If we made a base class application only, one will mean to limitate players' freedom. To gain what? I don't think it's a good trade. Other ways should be chosen, amd that's not fair that all warlocks players pay for other's faults.

to quote Winston Churchill, "the main drawback of freedom of speech can be discovered by simply chatting for five minutes with the average person". Making a class application only would limitate players' freedom, aye, but would also help to avoid some monstrosities we are seeing as of late. Because really, things like an aasimar warlock are a huge monstrosity from an rp perspective.

And I'd prefer to curb the freedom of the players rather than having to see such mostrosities as the ones I am currently seeing with almost all of the new warlocks running around. And before someone replies with "but there are clerics/rogues/whatever running around", well, clerics are policed by the staff if they stray too much, rogues do not draw their powers from sovranatural beings, and wizards/sorcerers lose their connection to the weave only VERY rarely (and only if Mystra gets pissed off with them).

Considering what has already transpired, the class needs to be policed one way or the other. So, whether warlocks are made KOS as soon as they go blasting (and I wouldn't mind such a resolution, but then again, that would cause huge tons of griefing and issues with people griefing on both sides), or can be legally prosecuted (Captured, brought to the fist, then executed or whatever, as long as the dms don't make them get out of detention the day after), or the class is made application only, I don't really care as long as results are obtained.

Making the class application-only is something that can easily be done, and is indeed already done for RWs and their Knights. IMO, it worked wonderfully to promote the RP of those Thayan classes.

So I agree that something should be done. Warlock levels are currently being taken for the OOC build benefits, but the lore behind warlocks is too complex and has too many IC ramifications for that kind of playing style. This was the same rationale for making RWs application-only, so I think it's reasonable to do it for warlocks.

totally agreed.

This makes me very, very queasy, in fact my belly is violently swirling. I fear the day I log in and can no longer RP at all because i am now KOS! To me personally, this is crazy talk. In character and out. What do you mean we need to reach a resolution? let people learn the game, learn the class, there is a lot of lore to be consumed. Plain and simple.

[Hitman Hard]

I agree, that's the problem. If we made a base class application only, one will mean to limitate players' freedom. To gain what? I don't think it's a good trade. Other ways should be chosen, amd that's not fair that all warlocks players pay for other's faults.

to quote Winston Churchill, "the main drawback of freedom of speech can be discovered by simply chatting for five minutes with the average person". Making a class application only would limitate players' freedom, aye, but would also help to avoid some monstrosities we are seeing as of late. Because really, things like an aasimar warlock are a huge monstrosity from an rp perspective.

And I'd prefer to curb the freedom of the players rather than having to see such mostrosities as the ones I am currently seeing with almost all of the new warlocks running around. And before someone replies with "but there are clerics/rogues/whatever running around", well, clerics are policed by the staff if they stray too much, rogues do not draw their powers from sovranatural beings, and wizards/sorcerers lose their connection to the weave only VERY rarely (and only if Mystra gets pissed off with them).

Considering what has already transpired, the class needs to be policed one way or the other. So, whether warlocks are made KOS as soon as they go blasting (and I wouldn't mind such a resolution, but then again, that would cause huge tons of griefing and issues with people griefing on both sides), or can be legally prosecuted (Captured, brought to the fist, then executed or whatever, as long as the dms don't make them get out of detention the day after), or the class is made application only, I don't really care as long as results are obtained.

Making the class application-only is something that can easily be done, and is indeed already done for RWs and their Knights. IMO, it worked wonderfully to promote the RP of those Thayan classes.

So I agree that something should be done. Warlock levels are currently being taken for the OOC build benefits, but the lore behind warlocks is too complex and has too many IC ramifications for that kind of playing style. This was the same rationale for making RWs application-only, so I think it's reasonable to do it for warlocks.

totally agreed.

This makes me very, very queasy. My belly is violently swirling. I fear the day I log in and can no longer RP at all because i am now KOS! To me personally, this is crazy talk. In character and out. What do you mean we need to reach a resolution? let people learn the game, learn the class, there is a lot of lore to be consumed. Plain and simple.