Surfacers and UD quests issue.

[Rainbow Prism]

Hello.


I heard of something, so I am here to revise some facts I gathered from some pieces.

1) Surfacers are blocked from doing Underdark quests.

2) Underdark inhabitants are blocked from doing surface quests.

3) Races, which have choice of starting locations (surface or UD realms) are capable of doing quests of surface and Underdark.


Most important is third thing, because, as I heard, it is flaw of limitations of engine.

Some of DMs told me it is exploit and is punishable.

I would like to hear opinions about it, as it is quite hurting theme and probably almost customary. What staff thinks of it? Are there any comments from coders or scripters on this? Are there any players who feel it is right or wrong?

[Trap]

there are some quests on surface that seem pretty neutral to me, especially "Imp's Ingredients" ..it doesn't make sense why quests like that would be Surface only.

[Valefort]

Imp's ingredient is completely evil though

[Trap]

didn't mean alignment though.. meant should be doable by any surfacer or UD'er.. in all honesty I don't see why some of the quests are limited in that manner. Maybe this could still be tweaked a bit.

[Eden]

i think I have read somewhere that surfacers should not do UD quests and vice versa. I believe it is a good rule. I could be wrong though.

[DM Galadriel]

Just a bit of clarification.

Surfacers doing an UD quest AND outside the city of Ssham are opening themselves to PvP by UD inhabitants. Just as drow are KOS in surface areas. Unfortunately there is no mechanics in place that dis-allow certain races which have the choice of spawning in either the Surface OR UD from accepting quests from either realm.
The staffs "policy" against this is to avoid grief from either side.
Please keep in mind Ssham is a trade city and surfacers are allowed and protected inside the city.
Surface races are far less tolerant of Drow and now G-orcs, and those races are not allowed in cities/villages that have a law enforcement. Most quest givers are inside these cities/villages and therefore not available to drow or G-orcs (as most know by now)

[grymhild]

The US vs THEM theme really bothers me. I think that there are plenty of evil surfacers who should be able to do just fine down below, as well as some UD characters who would do well on the surface.

I do not understand the RP reason why an UD tielfling (or other races which are both) would be reacted to any differently on the surface than a surface tielfling (and visa versa) as far as NPCs or PCs.


~grymhild

[Storm Munin]

It could just be that staff didnt intend for character to get closer to 20000xp during a 4 hour(counting high) questing session each week.

Some builds could this while others are limited mechanically.
Thus a fairness and xp cap by disallowing the double questing.

I know not.

[Rainbow Prism]

UD tiefling's quest reply:
"Yes, I will prepare the pincers of the bugs mutated on faerzress in the mushroom grove. And yes, I know where the processing labs of Guildhalls are, so hold on to these coins for me."

Surface tiefling's quest reply:
"Whowhowhat now? You are talking on Common, right?"

[Considerate_]

There's a mechanical reason why races that can belong to both Surface and the Underdark, can only do one set of quests. A bit of fairness meaning that all races get treated equally by the mechanics seems fine to me.

As for an RP reason? The travel between Sshamath and Baldur's Gate is one that takes weeks, if not months. Not minutes or hours, but that's a game limitation. No one in their right mind and regardless of their alignment, would venture across hundred upon hundred of miles, just to help Maltz get some goods from Beregost

[grymhild]

There's a mechanical reason why races that can belong to both Surface and the Underdark, can only do one set of quests. A bit of fairness meaning that all races get treated equally by the mechanics seems fine to me.

As for an RP reason? The travel between Sshamath and Baldur's Gate is one that takes weeks, if not months. Not minutes or hours, but that's a game limitation. No one in their right mind and regardless of their alignment, would venture across hundred upon hundred of miles, just to help Maltz get some goods from Beregost

Sure - if you're going back and forth like that to grind quests, then you're breaking the spirit of the game, and unless you're teleporting it should take some time - but travel doesn't take time except by some handwaving

How many times has someone cast a sending to someone that turns out to be far away, saying that they need help! and then that person takes a ship from BG to south of candlekeep and is up near the giants within a few minutes...

I've only been here a few months (which is probably why I get frustrated by some of the limitations) - but in that short time, i know that that stuff happens - a lot.

Anwyay, even if we say yea - travelling back and forth takes a long time - but what about someone who lives in Sshamath for a few months, then lives on the surface for a few, and then goes back again?

I also don't understand why deep gnomes are KoS on the surface?
or why a deep tiefling is KoS but a surface tielfings isn't

[Styxwash]

I don't believe that Deep Gnomes are KOS on the surface. Should only be Duergar, Drow and Tanarukk.

Many surfacers might not even be able to tell a Svirfneblin from a Rock Gnome, realistically.
Deep Gnomes may be suspected of working with the KOS races, but they aren't lore wise an evil race.

[Considerate_]

Deep Gnomes are Kill On Sight, because they're a race from the Underdark. That's a PvP ruling, anyone able to recognize an Underdark race is allowed to PvP them on the surface - and vice versa in the Underdark.


You are right though, that most people probably wouldn't be as prone to recognize the Deep Gnomes. If you're willing to take that chance, it's up to you.

Just remember for your character to have a legitimate reason to be on the surface, and that it's expected to be a short trip. Deep Gnomes want to stay deep, after all

[Styxwash]

Well the rules are abit conflicting on the issue actually.

This is the most recent post on what is KOS, from september last year -

- Drow and Tannurrak races on the surface are KOS. All Surface races in the UD, outside of the city of Sshamath or Varalla's Passage area, are KOS.

This is from 3-4 years before the above -

<< Underdark Versus Surfacers >>

Underdark players on the surface, and surface players within the tunnels of the Underdark (excluding the city of Sshamath), are consenting to PvP. They may be killed on sight.

[Nomster]

It is a bit conflicting indeed. I was discussing with another player if a half-drow would be KOS on surface, because that tidbit only mentions full drow and tannurrak. Have not heard a reply from a DM... since this came up here, is anyone who can confirm the ruling?