So what happens to the UD next?

[scriver]

Void, we are playing a game. A game with rules and context. Not just game mechanic rules, but rules for how the setting works within the game itself. You're trying to diminish the whole thing like it was nothing and people are just whining, but even I can realise that sacking the Temple of Lolth (to whatever degree) without any build up is very much a thing to be upset about, and I don't even play in the UD nor am I the least invested in the setting.

I get it, DMs are people too and sometimes they make mistakes. I understand that. But you should acknowledge that mistake, learn from it and do better in the future, not go into automatic denial defense mode and try to paint it as the players just being a bunch of whiners and sore losers for wanting some consistency in the game world. That's just cheap and underhanded.

[Passiflora]

If you did not censor this discussion and not block the posts I've been making you would not be singing so merrily.

It is me who censors this discussion. Also, I'd like to specify that I am an active underdark player.

While I also believe that this event was a mistake, I can't believe it was done with ill thoughts about the UD's guilds. As you said yourself, DMs are human. The only thing that can be done now is how to go forward with it, since it hasn't been retconned. I have felt the pulse of most players down there, and even a retcon wouldn't change what happened.

The only thing that can put a balm over that wound is what will happen next. The RP that will come out of it. I.. just wish you guys would sigh, and drop the blood pressure a bit, and just enjoy what's to come. I've seen Wretch work on it lately, and I'm sure it'll be lots of fun.

As for the posts I allow here (well, I'm human too, I'm not here 100% of the time), it's those that have no flaming/accusations in them. Accusations should always go via PM, to the head DM of the server. I'll do a little clean out for now.

*Wiggle the paws with magic*

[Servin]

When playing evil, one needs to have a thick skin and rolls with the punches. We're always expected to be the underdogs (though, fortunately, the last few weeks events around Triel seem to have changed this a bit - which brings a lot of new, refreshing energy to the table).

Not when evil is the official good where we're at. Remember it's good that's being despised where the event took place, an opposite to what goes on, on the surface. It's not the Smurfs RP game, where there always is a happy ending. At least not down here.

It is me who censors this discussion. Also, I'd like to specify that I am an active underdark player.

You didn't make the official decision though. I believe there have been many involved staff members who do not fully understand what has 'surfaced' and still made their voice heard, whilst remaining ignorant.

Worst thing still. If you go and PvP somebody without consent, you can get banned. If you ignore the lore and destroy a guild without their consent, you're all right. This guy should not be allowed to DM. As simple as...

You will say: well he's been here for 5 years, we can't just get rid of such an experienced DM.

To which my response would be: if he hadn't learnt in those 5 years, he never will and you're only asking for more trouble from him.

[Ardul]

The problem I can see is that it will have serious consequence of the particpants of this raid; i mean drow are not mindless orcs, they will find out who was behind this scene and will hunt down every single participant of it. Especially it is not a matter concerning only lolth fellowers, but every drow who have a connection to sshamath: This event showed that sshamath is vulnerable, so they will do an exemple to everyone (I am very sure every conclave member is highly interested in this). And the problem is that I doubt that the players involved really do not want to see their toons death (and with death I mean that they wont be resurrected 10min later). I mean who will going to resurrect them when their remains are somewhere in the demonweb pits?

[Rainbow Prism]

Lolthite player events broke a lot of lore. I am actually surprised why they did these and no one said a word:

1. Attempts to capture and enslave non-slave races in broad magic light of city in crowded places (elves).
2. Placed the leader of guild as Temple's High Priestess, when I am pretty sure that Temple's High Priestess is NPC that is existent IG.

[TheVoid]

Void, we are playing a game. A game with rules and context. Not just game mechanic rules, but rules for how the setting works within the game itself. You're trying to diminish the whole thing like it was nothing and people are just whining, but even I can realise that sacking the Temple of Lolth (to whatever degree) without any build up is very much a thing to be upset about, and I don't even play in the UD nor am I the least invested in the setting.

I get it, DMs are people too and sometimes they make mistakes. I understand that. But you should acknowledge that mistake, learn from it and do better in the future, not go into automatic denial defense mode and try to paint it as the players just being a bunch of whiners and sore losers for wanting some consistency in the game world. That's just cheap and underhanded.

1. Everything is fair game to a dm.
2. Dms make the content if you don't like it don't subscribe to their events. If they are off base talk to the head DMs about it or speak to the dm in question as to why or how the event came to be.
3. I'm not saying this was the best event ever and that staff members were not at fault in throwing this out of whack. I mentioned that in my post if you read it and keep things context.

Again I'm not being apathetic towards the scenario. What I am saying is that it happened, ruffled a few feathers which is IMO a pro to kick start some conflict and tension between opposing factions as a catalyst. Or it can be taken as a negative where people just want to rage quit and blame what was already failing and stagnant on a convenient target.

Whiners and sore losers?

Well publically asking for a dm to be removed is not that far off base. Have some class people and conspire against people trying to make things fun behind their backs like everyone else.

[Servin]

Whiners and sore losers?

Well publically asking for a dm to be removed is not that far off base. Have some class people and conspire against people trying to make things fun behind their backs like everyone else.

Just to be clear with you, I am not the member of the Temple of Lolth and haven't been one for months before the event had happened. I have not lost anything game-wise. What I did lose was faith in competence of some of the staff here and their suitability for the job. What I lost was the sense that the decisions are made impartially and when harm comes player's way, DM team play goes out of the way and server's good comes in first. That the right decisions are being made. Well, they're not.

Because it's always easier to call other whiners and losers rather to see fault in own behaviour, isn't it Void? Let's shove the blame the player's throats and call them whiners and losers. The ones conscious enough to point out a grave mistake and we the glorious DM's hate criticism, don't we? It's no longer a staff mess, it's those whiners and losers who cause the problem. Event? What event?!

I wonder if there is a joint staff announcement with regards to what you say Void. I am curious to know if, like the unfortunate DM leading the event, you're just doing things on your own accord, 'knowing better'.

Does the staff wish to provide a joint answer the questions raised in the first post by saying:

There was no staff fault in what has happened. It's the players who are whiners and losers.

[Maecius]

This situation is being closely monitored, and the DMs are actively trying to work towards an amenable solution that affords players a pleasant and engaging storyline.

We do make mistakes. It's incredibly easy on a server as diverse as ours, with as many players as ours, for a DM to make a mistake or run an event that doesn't quite mesh with the political atmosphere of this or that part of the server's storyline. Only extremely dedicated DMs with a good amount of free time on their hands can keep up on the vast array of roleplay that goes on here. And those DMs are few and far between (and tend to burn out rather quickly).

When DMs do take missteps, I pull them aside and I talk to them about it. We try to figure out what went wrong, and how we can do things better in the future. When I am the DM who has messed up? I rely on the other DMs to do this for me, as well.

We are a team, and as a team we are dedicated to making the roleplay experience of our players as enjoyable as possible. Sometimes this creates conflicts with other players. In this case, that conflict was caused unintentionally -- as a result of an incomplete awareness of the guild activity and player representation going on in the Underdark.

The best we can do in these instances is apologize for the headaches caused, and work to smooth over the trouble spots. At best, we may even get a great story out of it, with unplanned but quite gripping character development. We need players to work with us here, though, because no DM is going to want to help if they are being yelled at. They are all volunteers. They are not being paid. And nobody wants to be mistreated while they are trying to resolve an issue for you.

I feel there's really nothing more to say about this, however. This forum is intended for questions to the staff, not ongoing conversations or debates. I'm locking this thread, because I feel it is not generating helpful content for anyone, and is just upsetting people on both sides of the argument. If you have any issue or concern, question or comment, that you feel needs to be made -- please PM it to me.

Thanks for understanding. I look forward to your PMs.