What CR content is needed for the Underdark?

[Nyeleni]

Yeah put the deep gnomes with the toxic fumes in darkwwod . Besides its not empty there, those spawns are quite tough if you stumble upon them with a new char.

Passiflora wrote:
I don't remember any 'caster' goblins, and didn't find them hard at all. As for their explosion, you move away. (Though I don't remember them exploding).

Only real hard thing out there is the boss. You should outrun him as a monk though.

Pffft. That doesnt mean there are none. Your build/builds just didnt even let them cast the first spell. And they are there, I can assure you that.
And the explosions arent a problem for your char usually, but for your summon they are. As it is not that easy to make it move away in time...

[Rainbow Prism]

If you need elaboration, here are some points:

Mist Lake fortress is just terrible. I understand it was made in haste for event, but care to look at it. Even outer design is flawed. I see FAI getting several remakes, but Fortress at Mist Lake is standing as wreck which has gates opening into rocks, landscape totally unchanged inside the keep, making look the drow craftsmanship very pathetic (and pro-wizard one, at that).
Even NPCs there are put in chaotic way, just to stand there.

City is of most concern. Aside from little festhall and open air pub in South, there are no inns with rooms to give privacy so much needed for drow. It even forces some players to godmod using rooms in places ICly not allowing characters by common sense, like worker quarters in Darkspires.
Spider's Kiss... I really do not like everything there. First level looks like Menzo base of drow soldier operations rather than festhall oriented at 'servicing' males.
Why is there a portal leading to top of Zorr'bauth pillar?! That does not even make sense!
And all this webbing and even Giant Spider in pub room. It makes me think that designer, whoever it was, just looked at name and thought 'Ah-hah! I must make Lolthite resort' before looking what this place is.

Speaking of soldier base of operations... Aside from some pathetic Commander's Tent, there are no buildings (open, at least) that show power of Conclave military or at least hold prison of any kind. Guards, understandably, have no AI for throwing anyone in prison as well...



Should I continue?

[Servin]

No.

[Storm Munin]

Taking the same stance as Rainbow and EmpoweredFan.


We need areas for roleplaying more than grinding grounds, in the tunnels in particular.
Maybe we can have something useful made of Misty Lake again, before the alhoon war (when it served as a forward base/fortress) it was a decent area to kill midlevel undead. Since it hasnt been restored so the use of it now is.. uhhh, roleplay occasionally.


But if it must be a grinding area..
Midlevel beholder area, hopefully much like the hive in design really.*
For once those pesky wizards and godslaves are at a disadvantage.


* = the design of the illithid hive fits a roleplayed dungeon delve perfectly.

imho

/M

[Passiflora]

For that to happen, there'd need to be someone interested in playing in the toolset for these particular areas, design-wise. Placing spawns is one thing, but remaking area is another.

[Lyrewyn]

That's a real shame but completely understandable, it's hard to get volunteers to work at things they're not interested in. I wasn't sure exactly what the biggest problem was regarding my hesitation to stick with my underdark character until it was pointed out - there's nowhere 'nice' to roleplay in. Aside from the open air tavern in the South.

There are just so many facilities on the surface I take for granted.

[DMogorgon]

That's a real shame but completely understandable, it's hard to get volunteers to work at things they're not interested in. I wasn't sure exactly what the biggest problem was regarding my hesitation to stick with my underdark character until it was pointed out - there's nowhere 'nice' to roleplay in. Aside from the open air tavern in the South.

There are just so many facilities on the surface I take for granted.

I've been exploring the place recently, and I thought the interior areas in Sshamath are quite impressive. The mages towers... and especially the guild areas ((which sadly see little use due to limited access))...

[Eden]

I can bring you the example of Lake Weng, in the surface, where the spawns are placed on an half of the map, leaving the second free to roleplay. To encourage it, it has sort of a mysterious altar, that can help rp, and a threatening building too.
The same, on the surface, goes for Thundar's Ride, Boareskyr Bridge, and the recently added Misty Forest.
In this case the two instances has been gathered in only one area, so it should be possible to have them gathered once again in the UD.

[Lyrewyn]

I've been exploring the place recently, and I thought the interior areas in Sshamath are quite impressive. The mages towers... and especially the guild areas ((which sadly see little use due to limited access))...

There are a few places in already perfect for the roleplay intended in them, I will grant you that. But I know at the very least my character has no business being in the mage tower, to use your example. The Gloura Wings feels a little slummy . . . and there are no rooms, anywhere. Basically, all my complaints can be mirrored back to what Rainbow Prism already posted:

City is of most concern. Aside from little festhall and open air pub in South, there are no inns with rooms to give privacy so much needed for drow. It even forces some players to godmod using rooms in places ICly not allowing characters by common sense, like worker quarters in Darkspires.
Spider's Kiss... I really do not like everything there. First level looks like Menzo base of drow soldier operations rather than festhall oriented at 'servicing' males.
Why is there a portal leading to top of Zorr'bauth pillar?! That does not even make sense!
And all this webbing and even Giant Spider in pub room. It makes me think that designer, whoever it was, just looked at name and thought 'Ah-hah! I must make Lolthite resort' before looking what this place is.

Speaking of soldier base of operations... Aside from some pathetic Commander's Tent, there are no buildings (open, at least) that show power of Conclave military or at least hold prison of any kind. Guards, understandably, have no AI for throwing anyone in prison as well...

I realize in lore Sshamath is not very big on religion, but it would make sense to me if there were more . . . something. At the moment the only religious place I can think of is some hill with two tables and a chair on it. To paraphrase what someone wrote once, "Almost everyone down there is either a mercenary or a priest."

Mercenaries can find RP in grind areas so I'm not too worried about them. But the people who make priests feels a bit shafted.

[Servin]

Hence we're back to square 1 and my original question:

Why does the question assume the Underdark needs CR content?

[illithid]

Hidden: show

1-5

• Sewers
• Tombs
• Varalla's
• South of Varalla's
• West of Varalla's

5-10

• River Rift
• Mushroom Grove
• The underdark
• North West of River
• Darkwoods

10-15

• Goblin Lake Cave
• Goblin Lake Cave Deeper
• South west of River
• A Large Crypt
• A Large Crypt Lower Level

15-20

• The Tar Pits
• South of the Tar Pits
• North of the Tar pits
• East of Mist Lake
• The Illithid Mines
• The Illithid Mines Deeper
• Ophidian Tunnels
• Myconid Circles

20-25

• Duergar Compound
• Lava Tunnels
• Illithid Hive
• Illithid Hive Deeper
• Ruins of Oghrann
• Ruins of Oghrann Great Hall
• Underdark Wilds, West

25-30

• Underdark Wilds, East
• The Netherese Ruin

RP areas or no spawn areas/sub areas

• Sshamath & Environs
• Mist Lake..?
• Illithid mines before the compound entrance ...?
• The entrance to the Hive..?
• The caravanserai (no longer quite functioning)

My preference would be to see city and canon areas tidied up and enhanced before new grinding content is added. I dusted off the toolset the other day for this very reason.

We already have updates in the pipeline for Mist Lake, Varalla's Passage, the Stonestave & House Sshamath?

[Servin]

What's the status with that?

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1376&start=322

[Rasael]

What's the status with that?

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1376&start=322

I think it is slanted for after the Northern Expansion (NE) at the moment. I don't know because I am not the person who implements the content. But is my best guess.

The Northern Expansion area implementation is currently receiving top priority. But its not impossible that Luna might find time to implement the UD update before that. It depends on when all the NE content is finalized and submitted, implemented.

There is also a bunch of other stuff, spells, feats, classes, which may interlope the priority queue as I just explained it. We have enough content ready to keep updating for several weeks at least.

[Rainbow Prism]

So, there is time for monster zones, but not for city upgrades...

[Servin]

I hate to say it, but Rainbow Prism is right. You (OP, not Rasael) should plan your development better, because currently I see it all in chaos.

First mistake: I see no research on what the population in the UD is like. And it's mainly devoted RPers and not grinders. That might be because...

Second mistake: Unlike the surface, we need to raise our own initiatives (sometimes rejected, what also affects morale) to get any DM attention, so the DM's hardly know who we are and what we do.

Third mistake: Because of lack of proper research you offer them development that would greatly affect the population in the UD, making it more attractive to grinding than the great RP there is down there.

Fourth mistake: Whenever an angry player like myself raises their voice because they feel neglected as a UD population, the staff are becoming arrogant and ignore the call.

Fifth mistake: I'm not dismissing the latest activity of the DM's in the UD and wish to thank you for it, given this opportunity. But if you at least had one effing UD DM down there full time, of Strahd or Absolution calibre and you would listen to what they're saying, myself, Rainbow Prism, Storm Munin, Roke42, Empoweredfan and many other people wouldn't be telling you in this thread that you brought sand to the beach.