Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

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stevebarracuda
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Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by stevebarracuda »

So...here is a moral question. :lol:

Is the pale master prc a valid approach to making a mage that would be interested in immortality? That would also include a possible neutral to even good outlook on life...shall I dare say alignment?!? Reading through some dusty old PDFs, I came up with the following information:

About Undead
"Time and Immortality

Those creatures fanatical enough to actually seek undeath strive to escape the bonds of mortality and thereby gain a term of existence far beyond their natural life spans. Such mortals often presume that this gift of extended time comes without a price. They hope that by having no temporal limits on their life spans, they will be able to accomplish all of their dreams and visions.

The living spend their time living life and gathering experience, thereby shaping their personalities and adjusting to the world as it changes around them. In contrast, the undead mind sees the passage of time very differently. Undead exist, they do not live. Life means change, and while undead endure over time and learn new facts, they rarely change or appreciate new paradigms. Aside from a rare few exceptions, an undead's outlook remains stagnant over the decades, or centuries, of its existence, despite new experiences and new situations it may encounter.

This inflexible mental nature is the reason many ancient undead seem insane. In fact, they may merely be operating with goals and aspirations that are slightly out of step with the present world. Unfortunately, like any ambition that cannot be swayed by reason or tempered by changing circumstances, the goals of the stubborn immortal undead become a cankerous evil that can only be excised. While a living creature may accept compromise when life hands it a new challenge, undead can rarely do anything other than what they have always done."



Tome and Blood:


"In many ways, sorcerers and wizards hold themselves
aloof from worldly matters. And well they should, because
their realm is the esoteric and the nonphysical."

"Arcane spellcasters are often loners—they’re secretive,
covetous of their knowledge and power, egotistical, and
greedy for magical lore
."

"Pale Master...for those who desire power over undead but
refuse to give up their arcane craft completely."

"Requirements
To qualify to become a pale master, a character must
fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any nongood."

"Necromancy
This school isn’t particularly good for defeating large
numbers of foes quickly, but it can be devastating against
smaller numbers of living opponents. Specializing in
Necromancy is suitable for those with a yen to play a
character who’s a little creepy."


Because how close can we consider Pale Master to getting towards Lichdom? A mechanical means to a RP end??


Libris Mortis:

"LICH VARIANTS
Liches are as varied as player characters themselves. Here are
two more variants for your campaign.

Good Lich
Though conceptually an oxymoron, the idea of a good-aligned
creature who chooses undead immortality over a normal lifespan

is a compelling one. Such creatures typically dedicate themselves
to some noble cause—protection of a sacred location, the tending
of knowledge or learning
, and so forth.
As J.G. Ballard has said, "It's a mistake to hold back and refuse to accept one's own nature."
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by Simian »

Pale Master does not turn you undead, it doesn't even stop you from aging. It is just you get one leg to the grave sooner than others.
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by stevebarracuda »

Simian wrote:Pale Master does not turn you undead, it doesn't even stop you from aging. It is just you get one leg to the grave sooner than others.
Oh my dear, dear SimMontian...how you love to tease me!
Undead Graft: At 6th level, the pale master performs a horrific operation that replaces one of their arms with a supernaturally-animated, undead appendage.
Tough as Bone: At 7th level, the pale master becomes more and more like one of the implacable undead.
Deathless Mastery: At the 10th level, the pale masters are practically undead creatures themselves.
Now, maybe you would actually help me out and address my original question:

"Is the pale master prc a valid approach to making a mage that would be interested in immortality?"
As J.G. Ballard has said, "It's a mistake to hold back and refuse to accept one's own nature."
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by blue_penguin »

"Is the pale master prc a valid approach to making a mage that would be interested in immortality?"
You can do that with any PrC, but I'd say yes! Lichedom and the like may have corruptive effects on good-aligned creatures, though. I'm not sure :geek:
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by Simian »

No.

And if you read the end of the paragraph that describes "Deathless Mastery (Ex)" from Libris Mortis, page 49; "He still needs to breathe, eat, and sleep as normal for his type, and he still ages normally." (Needing to eat also means you need to drink.)

Hence, as I said earlier, you get one 'leg' to the grave sooner than the rest. But you remain very much a mortal, which is why Turn Undead or Rebuke undead does not affect you, regardless of your undead appendage, and partly mummified body.


Over all, you do not need to get levels of Pale Master in order to become a lich. And lichdom is not what awaits the Pale Master down the road, well, not without the Pale Master first actively trying to achieve lichdom and that puts him on the same line with everyone else longing to become liches.


Edit:
Any mage can seek immortality, you do not have to become a Pale Master to do that. In fact, it seems the whole PRC is just a cheap gimmick used by people who long for the mechanical benefits of lichdom.

You can do better.
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

stevebarracuda wrote:Is the pale master prc a valid approach to making a mage that would be interested in immortality?
Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Their obsession with undeath and often using the PRC to get to true undeath just suggests to me that they are indeed interested in immortality. I've RPed similar to this with my old Pale Master gish (though his goal was simply true undeath because he thought everything alive was more powerful in undeath than in life. And he wanted power).

By the way, it says "practically undead", but time and again we hear that the palemasters on the server are not undead. In PnP, this "practically" undead is much more true because you get all the immunities. Still not actually undead, though, as the description specifies. As Simian says.

Also, about "good liches": There are baelnorns, who are rare, and then there are archliches, who are even more rare. These are described in Monsters of Faerûn.
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by stevebarracuda »

Simian wrote:No.

Any mage can seek immortality, you do not have to become a Pale Master to do that.
But you could be a mage turned pale master, and pursue immortality as a personal goal, as outlined in some of the material I posted above. So the answer is yes? You see, SimMontian, I never wrote "actually become an immortal" or "actually become a Lich." The way the years on BG move so terribly, terribly slow...one will never reach immortality... :lol:

@ DeathG: ahh...Baelnorns! Interesting!

Wait...does this mean Elminster is really a pale master...any ever check under his robe for a trick leg?!?! Ha! That dude is really old... :ugeek:
As J.G. Ballard has said, "It's a mistake to hold back and refuse to accept one's own nature."
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

stevebarracuda wrote: @ DeathG: ahh...Baelnorns! Interesting!

Wait...does this mean Elminster is really a pale master...any ever check under his robe for a trick leg?!?! Ha! That dude is really old... :ugeek:
Baelnorns are elven and created through High Magic with approval from the queen and all the rest of them, or directly created by the Seldarine.

Elminster is immortal because he is Chosen, not undead. :P

Sammaster is an interesting one, though. He was chosen, then became mad with his power, de-chosen and went lich.

But I don't know if there's any lore on specific Archliches. I just know they're mentioned in Monsters of Faerûn. The Srinshee, for instance, wasn't an archlich, but a baelnorn.
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by Flasmix »

Go ahead, let Pale Master's be considered immortal! On the condition that they can be turned and I can use Control Undead on them, then sure!
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by Nomster »

Deathgrowl wrote:But I don't know if there's any lore on specific Archliches. I just know they're mentioned in Monsters of Faerûn. The Srinshee, for instance, wasn't an archlich, but a baelnorn.
I found some by following the cited sources on FR wiki on Archliches. Lady Alathene Moonstar of Waterdeep is a Chaotic Good Archlich p62 City of Splendors: Waterdeep 3.5. Renwick Caradoon LN is also mentioned on p48.

Ezzat the Archlich can supposedly be found in Ruins of Undermountain II p5 though I have not been able to confirm that one.

Other Archliches...

Rhaugilath the Ageless LG - Lost Empires of Faerûn 3.5 p102
Lady Saharel is a Good Archlich - The Code of the Harpers 2.0 p92
Bandaerl a LN dwarven Archlich - Undermountain: The Lost Level 2.0 p28

Image

Apparently Archliches can have a magnificent beard.

(pic from 4.0 but come on.. do you not feel like stroking that beard? :D)
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

That is undead santa claus!
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by ragnarok1983 »

So fluffy...
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by stevebarracuda »

We know that a Lich isn't a pale master, since there is this crazy thing called phylactery involved. ;)

A lich is considered an undead spellcaster, and a pale master is not technically undead, though a pale master has undead parts on their body. But a pale master could turn into a Lich, but we are unsure if a Lich would need (or want) to be a pale master.

I think it is fair to say a certain madness is involved, either way!
As J.G. Ballard has said, "It's a mistake to hold back and refuse to accept one's own nature."
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by Storm Munin »

And a nice head polish.. thats a posh dwarf lich for you.
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Re: Pale Master prc as means to immortality via undeath

Unread post by Hitman Hard »

I heard somewhere but can't recall. . .that once a Pale Master always a Pale Master? Does this apply on our server even if one RCR's?
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