"Good" Drow....and the Surface.

[Deathgrowl]

Thus, when I read stuff from there like :

"Among the elven powers, Eilistraee is only close with Erevan Ilesere, and she has only recently worked out an uneasy truce with Shevarash."

It makes me question WHEN in the history this canon would be in effect. Without knowing even WHICH Edition the info comes from, we are left guessing or worse, making stuff up on the fly.

Considering these are gods more than 10000 years old (at least in Eilistraee's case), so "recently" isn't a very accurate term...

[thids]

Most information on nj is 2nd edition. The entry for Eilistraee comes from 2nd edition Demihuman Deities.

Considering these are gods more than 10000 years old (at least in Eilistraee's case), so "recently" isn't a very accurate term...

yeah but the books are not written from their perspective. I'd say when it says recently in the sourcebooks it means in the last 20 maybe 30 years.

[kleomenes]

There is some datable information in there:
- centuries of very slight prominence
- cormanthan / Ellistraeean alliance circa 2000 years ago
- the "Run" existing as an annual ellistrean ritual without being dated, implying its always been practiced

The very existence of the "run" is interesting. Every Ellistraeean every year endeavouring to approach in friendly fashion elven communities, giving them food, and learning songs and sword work. If they were blanket KOS all the time, it would mean a dead religion very quickly. Yet... It doesn't die out

Edit: obviously this is against a backdrop of general unknown/ mistrusted / hated

[Storm Munin]

Watch elves dance and practice swordwork from the shadows and leave a gift of food behind would accomplish that.

But it doesnt seem that is what the writer meant.
It is all rather convoluted.

The term Run has some implications.

/M

[Storm Munin]

As for how many nonevil drow there are in the year of Flamerule (DR1379) we do know that some 20%? of the drow population was turned into dark elves at the time of the masked lady's death.
Whether this means eilistraeeans along with former vhaerunites is up for grabs.
The sources does not infer whether the High magic ritual had anything to do with faith or alignment even if it was designed by an Eilistraeean, as far as what ive found it simply states that those drow (good as evil?) that did not possess Wendonai's heritage was redeemed.

Drizzt NOT transforming could mean that not all good drow are accounted in that number. Then again he could very well be a chosen of Lolth, which would arguably prevent the change even if he is good.
After all what Drizzt does not only serves Lolth's agenda at times, also he is somewhat in line with how id imagine a follower of Araushnee would have been. As much as Lolth has progressed into evil since, the weaver Queen of all elves are still at the foundation of her being.
Or he simply unlike those transformed is a descendant of Wendonai.
Sorry for bringing up him in this thread but it had some merit.


All theory and supposition...

/m

[Normandy]

Remember, even if you plan something like this, you can't 'live' on the surface as a good drow on this server, by the rules. So be prepared to be sent back to the underdark.

A rule that is simply detrimental to RP.

That's my opinion. I don't play a drow, though.

Based on my current understanding of the rule, I would have to agree.

In my humble opinion and not meaning to offend anyone, I think that finding followers of Vhaeraun or Eilistraee on the surface is a lot more plausible than finding orcs in paladin orders anywhere yet there is no rule for that.

I don't play a drow either.

[Considerate_]

The in game laws in Baldur's Gate against drow is due to In Character actions of players and the recent drow plot and destruction of Hill's Edge cements this.

If a change has to be made for the in game rules, it has to start in game with Eilistraeens/others trying to reach out. It won't happen overnight, and it won't be without risk, but the server can change.



Personally, I don't mind the KOS rule staying. It's a matter of how it's handled ICly, if drow starts becoming accepted on the surface then it won't be accepted ICly that you kill them off without valid reason.
Of course... that's provided it's ever accomplished, what with all the lore specific to this server of drow abusing the trust of surfacers, it's definitely not going to be an easy journey.

[Molag__Bal]

Remember, even if you plan something like this, you can't 'live' on the surface as a good drow on this server, by the rules. So be prepared to be sent back to the underdark.

Passiflora, I tried to find this somewhere in the server rules, but didn't have any luck. Any chance you could point me in the right direction?

[Considerate_]

Policy/Rule, but here is what I believe Passi is referring to:

Subject: UD/Surface

These have been the UD/surface policies since I've started playing here (as they were explained to me when I was a player), and the DM team thinks they're fine as is.
So here they are, for clarity's sake:

• You can be on the other side, but have some roleplay reason to be there (not just an excuse to grind or PvP)
• Can't grind on the other side
• Can't run quests on the other side
• UDers auto-consent to PvP on the surface, surfacers auto-consent to PvP in the UD outside of Sshamath

[Molag__Bal]

Doesn't say anything about being unable to live on the surface. As long as you have a valid RP reason for being there and follow the other rules, you should be fine.

The grinding part is a bit confusing to me though. I've seen surfacers adventure into the underdark and kill enemies along the way and vice versa. Does that constitute "grinding"?

[kleomenes]

Watch elves dance and practice swordwork from the shadows and leave a gift of food behind would accomplish that.

But it doesnt seem that is what the writer meant.
It is all rather convoluted.

The term Run has some implications.

/M

Yep, I don't think it can be argued to not be a risky thing, based on who is approached. But as you say it's general tenor seems to be that there is some non violent interaction

Even 1/10 runs leading to death would see an Ellistraeean dying within ten years nearly nine times out of ten, right? Shortlived religion! So in reality death rates are likely much lower

Of course, not dying =/= peaceful interaction. It does seen clear there is some, though.

I was surprised to read this myself but it goes to show when you dig into the lore, blanket statements often need to be rendered nuanced (such as in life)

Edit: will try and find those Ed Greenwood quotes on numbers

[Passiflora]

Doesn't say anything about being unable to live on the surface. As long as you have a valid RP reason for being there and follow the other rules, you should be fine.

The grinding part is a bit confusing to me though. I've seen surfacers adventure into the underdark and kill enemies along the way and vice versa. Does that constitute "grinding"?

Yes, if they actually hunt. I don't think there's anything to seek in the UD elsewhere than Sshamath for surfacers, unless they go to a meeting, or they're on a DM quest.

Same for UDers who go to surface.

Basically, what happens is that, when a drow is spotted on the surface and vice versa, they're asked their reason of being there. If it's "to explore", or "I live here", it's not good enough as a reason, unless the standards have changed.

It was made like this to avoid the "hooded-drow-at-campfire thing", and the very-likerly-to-happen godmodding of drow players and surface NPCs.

If it's always case-to-case basis, it opens the door to favoritism, so I personally prefer when it applies to -everyone-. Same rules for everyone.

If a drow is allowed to 'Stay' on the surface because they're Eillistr-thing, what prevents another player who play a drow follower of vhaerun to also play on surface because his goal is to hunt humans? What prevents Lolthite characters to go there constantly? And what prevents surfacers to go in Shamath just because they like the nice little lights, and they just want to 'win' the maze?

I've seen the drow-campfire thing and it's horrible. I'd rather not have that on BG.

[Simian]

I'd rather not have that on BG.

ANYMORE!

[thids]

The in game laws in Baldur's Gate against drow is due to In Character actions of players and the recent drow plot and destruction of Hill's Edge cements this.

This city is sometimes called the
Forgotten City of Sunset Vale. Many
folk on the Sword Coast and in the
Inner Sea lands alike simply forget it
exists. Many guides and histories omit
it or gloss over it as if it were a minor
village or waystop well.

I don't really see how Hill's Edge has anything to do with it, especially considering it's distance. But I suppose that's the problem with doing things outside of the server setting, there is no lore about those places readily available on the forums.

[Considerate_]

Considering that rumours are currently filtering in all over the land, about how it's been utterly destroyed by a raiding force of drow... I'm not sure how it doesn't factor into the equation?

Hill's Edge may not be anything big in official lore, that doesn't mean it won't become famous on our server's lore. Of course, it'll be famous for being destroyed which is hardly a goal you should aim for