Question about hostile toggle and detection.

[Snarfy]

Recently I've encountered a player who, apparently not having sufficient detection skills, has resorted to setting people on hostile so that he can utilize his tracking to detect hidden players.

The circumstances in which he became aware of my characters presence was due to a known bug that renders any hidden players(and DM's) visible(which I explained to him). I was kept on hostile and the player proceeded to RP as if he had detected me. There was another circumstance in which the same player set someone I know on hostile to track them after seeing that player take damage in the combat log(which was pointed out to him as metagaming). He even went so far as to set that hidden player on hostile the next time they logged on.

Am I correct in believing that these types of instances are an abuse of the PvP mechanics and fall under the metagaming category?

The other question I pose is this: under what circumstances is using the hostile toggle to track someone acceptable? I was under the impression that the hostile toggle was only to be used only as a precursor to PvP.

Thanks for your time DM's.

[grymhild]

I agree, this is something else that I would like to know

[Luna]

Generally yes it would be metagaming and not allowed.

Maybe a DM will have to comment here.
I've been in certain RP cases where we need to find play "x" across the server where this has been done as a method of searching.

[Hitman Hard]

Pretty sure the only way to track someone shadowing you with the survival skill is by toggling hostile-it is essentially how you use the skill?

The Survival skill will allow you to detect hostile enemies on the minimap.

Modifying ability: Wisdom

Classes: Barbarian, Druid, Ranger, Spirit shaman; Arcane archer, Frenzied berserker, Harper agent, Stormlord

Requires training: No

Check: Unknown if it uses any DC checks. According to Designer George Ziets [1], survival "expands the range you can see hostile creatures on the minimap, while in Tracking mode. Any character can activate Tracking mode, but only characters with the Track feat and points in the Survival skill are going to get much value from it."

[DM Novus]

The circumstances in which he became aware of my characters presence was due to a known bug that renders any hidden players(and DM's) visible(which I explained to him). I was kept on hostile and the player proceeded to RP as if he had detected me. There was another circumstance in which the same player set someone I know on hostile to track them after seeing that player take damage in the combat log(which was pointed out to him as metagaming). He even went so far as to set that hidden player on hostile the next time they logged on.

1. If an in-character action/re-action is performed because of a Bug—known or unknown—that would be bad form, as well as against the Rules of the Server. Please, Players, do not use Bugs of the Game to meta your colleagues.

2. Setting Hostile is an OOC action. Setting Hostile MEANS NOTHING IN-CHARACTER. A Player Character MUST ROLE-PLAY HOSTILITY, in-character, to show/explain/give options to another PC, so that a PvP Out may be taken...or, simply a fair and common sense moment for response. Please read the PvP Rules for the exact information, or Mum's Guides: PvP Basics.

3. Do not set another Player Character Hostile without Direct IC Contact, for means to Track them—or for a means to assassinate them—unless you have gained OOC permission from the other Player, first. Again, setting Hostile is an OOC action, and should not be used for in-character use. Essentially, setting Hostile allows the Engine to use Auto-attack Selection on the PC set to Hostile, just like it can do/cycle through on monsters.

Thank you.

[Thorsson]

I recall when a certain Drow would set the whole server to hostile immediately after logging on. Does that mean that such behaviour would not be allowed nowadays?

[Passiflora]

If I remember right, you can't track someone who is hiding unless you meet one of these two criteria:

You beat their hide with spot,


You have SCENT.

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Scent

Notes
This feat can locate hidden enemies on the minimap (only if they are set hostile) without any type of Spot or Listen check. However when you get near them you'll still require a spot/listen check to detect them so they can be targeted or attacked with more than AoE's.

In the past it was allowed to track one individual, because it's what the skill does and it wasn't considered metagaming, as it takes into consideration your hide and ms. For scent though, the feat which only grey orcs have, you don't need to see someone to smell them.

If Novus says it's not legal anymore though, it's not. But it's how it used to be.

As for the player who used to set everyone hostile, it was causing too much trouble for the DMs back then, because everyone kept making complaints about it. It's why they were asked to stop.

The circumstances in which he became aware of my characters presence was due to a known bug that renders any hidden players(and DM's) visible(which I explained to him).

This bug has nothing to do with tracking and survival, though.

[Torgerias]

The circumstances in which he became aware of my characters presence was due to a known bug that renders any hidden players(and DM's) visible(which I explained to him).

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but since it looks like the question has been answered: what is this bug? I've never played a sneak and don't want to accidentally metagame anyone.

[ragnarok1983]

Pretty sure the only way to track someone shadowing you with the survival skill is by toggling hostile-it is essentially how you use the skill?

The Survival skill will allow you to detect hostile enemies on the minimap.

Modifying ability: Wisdom

Classes: Barbarian, Druid, Ranger, Spirit shaman; Arcane archer, Frenzied berserker, Harper agent, Stormlord

Requires training: No

Check: Unknown if it uses any DC checks. According to Designer George Ziets [1], survival "expands the range you can see hostile creatures on the minimap, while in Tracking mode. Any character can activate Tracking mode, but only characters with the Track feat and points in the Survival skill are going to get much value from it."

Yeah, only works on PCs if they are "hostile" via the toggle.

As stated by the DMs, you can track, but a Spot/Listen check must still succeed to discover the person.

The follow up question I will have then, is that to use tracking ICly, you must... MUST... toggle the hostile button. I have never heard of requiring OOC permission to use the in character skill of tracking... this is a new server stance to me.

[Snarfy]

I'm fairly certain the player in question wasn't aware of the bug before hand, but even after being informed of it they opted to keep hostile toggled on. I've forwarded this topic to this player. Thanks for the replies and clarification on the hostile toggle eveyone.

[Rasael]

I recall when a certain Drow would set the whole server to hostile immediately after logging on. Does that mean that such behaviour would not be allowed nowadays?

I think the rules mention to avoid toggling everyone hostile. So it should be seen as normal not to do that - yes. That sounds right.

[DM Novus]

If Novus says it's not legal anymore though, it's not. But it's how it used to be.

What Novus said is:

Do not set another Player Character Hostile without Direct IC Contact, for means to Track them.

Furthermore:

...unless you have gained OOC permission from the other Player, first.

Logging on, finding a PC using the Player List function, setting another PC Hostile, without Direct IC Contact or previous OOC permission, is simply bad form.