Rogue Training Tips

[clean_slate]

I want to make a classic Rogue HiPS build, but it got me thinking, how would such character survive in solo grinding? I mean, even with HiPS it would be hard, as those 6 seconds out of stealth mean that my Rogue would be mobbed by critters while having poor defence (low AC due to having stealth specific gear, no damage out of stealth, poor saves and HP, no DR).

Any veteran Rogue players out there who can give some advice? Is it possible to solo efficiently with such character, or I am better off with something else?

[Deathgrowl]

UMD, UMD, UMD.

Heroism scrolls (+2 to saves and AB) are like 50g
Shield scrolls (+4 shield AC) are also about 50g
Mirror image scrolls are around 50g
Spiderskin scrolls (+4 natural AC) are about 250g

Wands are a bit more expensive, but of course have 50 charges.
Improved Mage Armour and Death Ward are wands I regularly use on my rogue.

On top of that, of course, if you build right, you will have Epic dodge, which helps a lot for the half round that a mob may retaliate before you can HiPS again.

[odyssey]

49 AC and + UMD= can reach 56 AC (IMA,spider,arcane shield) http://nwn2db.com/build/?168188 (can use divine scroll)

[Deathgrowl]

49 AC and + UMD= can reach 56 AC (IMA,spider,arcane shield) http://nwn2db.com/build/?168188 (can use divine scroll)

In the "pros" section you say this:
high AC for rogue (49 AC in stuff +4)

Good luck finding anything above +2 AC that also has hide/ms bonus anywhere on BG. You'll have to get grandfathered gear for that. And you can't trade that anymore.

[mireigi]

Doesn't really matter much tbh. With the suggested wands, most of those AC bonusses are of no value since the wands will do a better job.

[odyssey]

49 AC and + UMD= can reach 56 AC (IMA,spider,arcane shield) http://nwn2db.com/build/?168188 (can use divine scroll)

In the "pros" section you say this:
high AC for rogue (49 AC in stuff +4)

Good luck finding anything above +2 AC that also has hide/ms bonus anywhere on BG. You'll have to get grandfathered gear for that. And you can't trade that anymore.

i have items +4 AC (you also find them in time or change)

[odyssey]

Doesn't really matter much tbh. With the suggested wands, most of those AC bonusses are of no value since the wands will do a better job.

guys, let's learn how to count and then make a statement. Suppose you have armor, amulet, boots, helmet + 4 AC. Thus you will be reckoned from the Spider +1 AC, IMA +2 AC, arcane Shield +4 AC. eventually 49 AC (items +base+dex+feats) +7(scrolls) = 56 AC . You can read other scrolls (eg divine)

[mireigi]

Doesn't really matter much tbh. With the suggested wands, most of those AC bonusses are of no value since the wands will do a better job.

guys, let's learn how to count and then make a statement. Suppose you have armor, amulet, boots, helmet + 4 AC. Thus you will be reckoned from the Spider +1 AC, IMA +2 AC, arcane Shield +4 AC. eventually 49 AC (items +base+dex+feats) +7(scrolls) = 56 AC . You can read other scrolls (eg divine)

Not really sure what you're trying to say. Any AC bonus on items doesn't stack with other sources except for Dodge AC. So without +4 AC items, you'd get Spider +5 AC, IMA +6 AC, Arcane Shield +4 AC. Not really sure where the counting is wrong.

[odyssey]

Doesn't really matter much tbh. With the suggested wands, most of those AC bonusses are of no value since the wands will do a better job.

guys, let's learn how to count and then make a statement. Suppose you have armor, amulet, boots, helmet + 4 AC. Thus you will be reckoned from the Spider +1 AC, IMA +2 AC, arcane Shield +4 AC. eventually 49 AC (items +base+dex+feats) +7(scrolls) = 56 AC . You can read other scrolls (eg divine)

Not really sure what you're trying to say. Any AC bonus on items doesn't stack with other sources except for Dodge AC. So without +4 AC items, you'd get Spider +5 AC, IMA +6 AC, Arcane Shield +4 AC. Not really sure where the counting is wrong.

consider:
base 10
Dex 11 (9 +2 (any items, belt or gloves or ring)
tumble 3
INT (IB) 5 (3 +2 (any items, boots, ring, helmet)
-----------------------
                        29
-----------------------
Helmet 4
amulet 4
boots 4
robe 4
-----------------------
                          16
-----------------------
IMA 2
shield 4
haste 1
reduce person 1
--------------------------
                           8
--------------------------
CE 3
-------------------------

IN TOTAL 56 AC (and can use divine scrolls)

[Deathgrowl]

Lol, you're assuming you can get +4 int and dex on items with good hide/ms? There isn't any hide/ms in the loot tables, nor will the random generator make any.

You're not going to get any +4 AC gear with hide/ms on it either unless it is grandfathered, as I said. Where do you claim to have gotten yours?

[odyssey]

Lol, you're assuming you can get +4 int and dex on items with good hide/ms? There isn't any hide/ms in the loot tables, nor will the random generator make any.

You're not going to get any +4 AC gear with hide/ms on it either unless it is grandfathered, as I said. Where do you claim to have gotten yours?

looking for and find. Verify the existence of what things you doubt it?

[mireigi]

guys, let's learn how to count and then make a statement. Suppose you have armor, amulet, boots, helmet + 4 AC. Thus you will be reckoned from the Spider +1 AC, IMA +2 AC, arcane Shield +4 AC. eventually 49 AC (items +base+dex+feats) +7(scrolls) = 56 AC . You can read other scrolls (eg divine)

Not really sure what you're trying to say. Any AC bonus on items doesn't stack with other sources except for Dodge AC. So without +4 AC items, you'd get Spider +5 AC, IMA +6 AC, Arcane Shield +4 AC. Not really sure where the counting is wrong.

consider:
base 10
Dex 11 (9 +2 (any items, belt or gloves or ring)
tumble 3
INT (IB) 5 (3 +2 (any items, boots, ring, helmet)
-----------------------
                        29
-----------------------
Helmet 4
amulet 4
boots 4
robe 4
-----------------------
                          16
-----------------------
IMA 2
shield 4
haste 1
reduce person 1
--------------------------
                           8
--------------------------
CE 3
-------------------------

IN TOTAL 56 AC (and can use divine scrolls)

I think you're missing my point. There is no need to get any items with Armor AC, Deflection AC, Natural AC, +4 Int or +4 Dex. You will get all of that, and more, with wands and scrolls. Therefore you can focus on getting items with high bonuses to Hide and Move Silently.

consider:

Base                 10
Dex                  11   (9 +2 (Cat's Grace) 
Tumble                3 
INT (IB)              5   (3 +2 (Fox's Cunning) 
--------------------------
                     29 
-------------------------- 
Boots                 4
-------------------------- 
                      4
-------------------------- 
IMA                   6
Spiderskin            5
Shield of Faith       5
Shield                4 
Haste                 1 
Reduce Person         1
--------------------------
                      8
--------------------------
Combat Expertise      3
--------------------------
IN TOTAL             58 AC

[odyssey]

*Shield of Faith* I did not consider it as just mentioned that you can use divine scrolls. Then all the arguments that it is difficult / impossible to find things you can do +4 unrecorded. Thus achieving a rogue AC 56 (58) is not a problem. What I said before

[dzidek1983]

Guys theank you for your epic dispute about rogue AC in the epic evles.. now please tell the poor man how to lvl up rogue on low levels

[Deathgrowl]

Well, until you get HiPS it's extremely tedious. Better group up.

After you get HiPS, though, it's much easier. You attack, hide, attack, hide, and so on. Remember you can use heal kits while hidden.