What CR content is needed for the Underdark?

[Servin]

About this topic
DMogorgons comments are intended without any implication regarding what the staff has time for pursuing currently. You should see this topic as a way for the DM's to gauge which kinds of areas the Underdark could use.

They will fit that into their development goals for the Underdark, which are more expansive than adding new areas for CR ranges.

This topic really has no bearing on the S'shsamath update that is pending. That update is fairly complex and we have a lot of other content pending as well. This topic on the other hand is not about content that has been developed and is pending for implemention. Instead it is about formulating a design framework of ideas and plans which will be developed at some point.

It is perfectly okay to suggest other things that the Underdark needs in your opinion, in another topic meant for that. The staff will happily take note of that and discuss it with you. Just don't agro them by making it personal, because that's discouraging as Rainbow Prism wrote. These people including myself are volunteers who are trying their best to help out in the time they have for this hobby. But it has to be fun. No body pursues a hobby that isn't fun.

Well I do hope that my comments have not been taken personally by the dev team. Much of what I wrote were suggestions for improvement, especially communication between the playerbase and the staff as I see it and consider it poor. All in all, feedback is feedback, misplaced in a wrong thread or not.

Nevertheless the update you have developed that was brought up in this conversation was mentioned only because some players, including myself believe it to be brilliant, addresses exactly what is needed the most for the UD and we have used more than one opportunity to express that. If that has escaped your attention before, it won't now, because you just read it

So tell us more about your development works and you will get more

Servin, you are overdoing it. Contain the walls of text, or decrease font to make it look smaller. It annoys staff.

You simians, may merely refer to it as...
SCRUM
... if you prefer less syllable extensive workout

- Edwin Odesseiron
Red Wizard of Thay

As for the CR rating areas, I suppose the majority is correct in them saying 1-5 and 25-30. But I wouldn't know. I really prefer RP to grinding so I won't cast a vote because clearly I lack the idea on this matter.

[Rasael]

Drow/duergar/orc/tanarukk bandits, Umber Hulks slamming outta the wall, carrion crawlers/slimes dropping from the ceiling, Driders showing up after you get into web...

In essence, all creatures of Underdark are supposed to attack by random encounter ambushes and I feel that they must be much more frequent than on surface.

Yes exactly. That's what I was also thinking about

I would like to see a bunch of areas like that, in the Underdark as well as in the path(s) leading to the surface / upperdark. That way you get the real experience of entering a dangerous region before you arrive in the Underdark area pocket.

[Rainbow Prism]

But it will be months(or years) before it will be done, since the developers are concentrating on *ugh* North surface. Is that correct?

[Rasael]

There is no timeline for it because its not in development yet. Like I wrote, this post is about formulating plans for a future project. Not for one that is already in development.

It will in any case only be implemented after the North has been implemented yes. But that is logical because we've already finished most of the Northern areas. These underdark ideas haven't even begun to be developed. DMogorgon only posted this a few days ago.

[DMogorgon]

@ Rainbow Prism. Can you link the area suggestions thread for me please?


Otherwise, when it comes to content and updates, we can't and don't make any promises, but we do try to listen to the community and respond. Content updates take time, and there can be serious delays and even technical issues... that's just how it is. Also, some problems historically have been more intractable than others... and people are hesitant to take them on for a reason.


Anyway, I've already gotten one player submit interest in developing UD areas in Toolset. If you want UD content... this is the way to get it. And I would strongly recommend not thrusting work and expectations on any one individuals shoulders. Anyway, as has been said, these types of polls are just designed for some preliminary gauging.

[mar3usmc]

Speaking of Netherese Ruins (thank you), it lost it's main feature. I see players coming in on scryer without going into Underdark/Surface, which probably means that they come for grinding/looting. And these are characters who walk through it in no time.
Everyone knows that word Lesser in magma golems is just scarecrow (not that it matters, they manage to kill it in 10 seconds by group), since there is no normal Magma golem.
Many epic character players already remembered (or written up) the way through maze. In fact, it stops anyone but most old players, who happen to make their excuse for RP far from their spawning grounds.
The teleport is nice, but it's fixed location transition, which, I already said, can be remembered. Average powerbuild character can move through it alone in five-ten minutes. Groups only take longer because they are acting like tour guides for less powerful characters.

Did they change any of my creatures? As for a real Magma golem (no lesser), you do realize that a magma golem is very very big.... right? Like it would take up the entire map of that area, or perhaps more. The LMG is fine as far as I recall. It can be really nasty if you don't understand the creatures weakness, and some character simply have to run from it.

It takes about an hour to switch up all the teleport points. Not something I would mind doing actually if the staff feels there is a need for it. Problem though is making sure you don't accidentally make the area passable in three teleports. There are many other things you could also do to make the area more difficult to traverse, but as far as I recall, all things considered, the average player, alone, has little chance of making it through.

I don't design areas for Favored Souls or uber power builds. That would ruin the fun for every other character type if I did. This is an RP server first, and that is how I design my areas. If you really look at my areas, you can see a the story. (perhaps I need to add some readable books and journals?)

[Rainbow Prism]

Suggestions forum ----- Area subforum. Empoweredfan put some suggestions about additions for city, mostly, inns and lodgings.

http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=37424


Netherese ruins could use some books, but not until there will be addition that will separate surface and Underdark books. They are stored in one cache, that is why I did not put any books there yet.

[Rasael]

Well I do hope that my comments have not been taken personally by the dev team. Much of what I wrote were suggestions for improvement, especially communication between the playerbase and the staff as I see it and consider it poor. All in all, feedback is feedback, misplaced in a wrong thread or not.

Nevertheless the update you have developed that was brought up in this conversation was mentioned only because some players, including myself believe it to be brilliant, addresses exactly what is needed the most for the UD and we have used more than one opportunity to express that. If that has escaped your attention before, it won't now, because you just read it

It is appreciated by all of us, extra kudos for maturity

[Maximvs]

We could really use a small svirfneblin settlement somewhere. Or an outpost with a merchant a bit away from Sshamath, like the misty lake.

I think there used to be one but they all fled at the first sign of trouble?

[mireigi]

Here's a list of what I'm missing in the Underdark:

• Svirfneblin settlement /w tavern and trade bazaar
• Duergar clan stronghold /w tavern and trade bazaar
• Mercenary outpost /w tavern and trade bazaar
• Outcast conclaves (settlements of non-Lolthite worshippers)
• Duergar mining camp /w tavern
• Portals leading to strange places
• Second Drow city, possibly Sschindylryn (City of Portals)
• Kuo-toa settlement (high pre-epic CR area)
• Illithilich/Alhoon community (epic CR area)
• Beholder Conclave (epic CR area)

[ohboy007]

Need more epic grinding spots to keep those rascally rabbits out of the Dragon Caves on the surface. You know who you are! That dwarven fortress thing just doesn't cut it and it's a bit easy. I'm thinking CR 25+ area is needed. Seems most on here agree we at least need another high level grinding/adventuring area.

[Aelcar]

Area-wise, the UD is magnificent. The reduced size just means you do not have to walk for 2 hours transition after transition, because in beauty and variety, it is fantastic to move around and RP there.

Even grinding-wise, you have areas for all levels (it's slightly more complicated as a lvl 1 ECL race, because it's easy to get killed when you play your first character there. But you do have options, so it's not tragic): the goblins, then goblin caves, then Umber Hulks & Co. for a short while, then Duergars, Oghrann in the Epics, Driders if you like in Mid-epics and then Compound & lower halls for a challenge with the Pit Fiend and his friends.

For variety, one more high epic area is probably the most needed one, because there currently is no option but the Compound (upper and lower), and Drow & Co. require a lot of grinding to get to lvl 30. However, areas are not what the UD needs most. All this talk about areas, cities and whatnot is interesting, sure...but here's the list of what the UD needs:

1) Dedicated players, who play exclusively in the UD and love the setting.
2) The above mentioned, who make ONE CHARACTER (TWO tops, and ONE MAIN) and stick to it for several months, years even better, and build an RP net up, creating fun for themselves and the other players (IC allies and enemies, OOC friends).
3) Coordinated activity, in game and on the forums, that helps DMs maximise the impact of the time they spend on the UD (meaning: a DM that sees an RP thread full of players and effort, can easily come online one hour, throw and event and validate important RP and then leave the players to RP the consequences, instead of needing to reserve hours and hours to come up with and execute a complete event, which in the long run is far less sustainable).

When the UD has 15-30 players that stably roam the place every day, every hour of the day, then you'll find out new areas are only icing on the cake.