How much (if any) Domain leeway is allowable on request?

[VitalTouch]

Basically I'm struggling to get my character concept to fit into what's possible to build in the NWN2 system (compared to NWN1 where the character originated) and a lot of this comes down to what I understand to be restrictions on domains for Clerics.

I'm currently at the drawing board on the nwn2db builder site trying to find the sweet spot of a mechanical build that is supportive of the character backstory whilst not being cheesey and anti her RP.

Given the 3by20 rule and the way Clerics have been dumbed down in NWN2 compared to NWN1 one possible solution might be to multiclass with Favoured Soul levels. As this would grant the character some martial ability which is within her RP without dipping into a fighter class which would dilute the caster levels even more.

The obvious problem is I need Ilmater as the Cleric deity for the Healing domain but need the Red Knight as the deity for the correct weapon feats from Favoured Soul, some of the backstory behind my thoughts and this question can be found in this thread. http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=41829

My question is this, would it be acceptable to the DMs for me to take the Red Knight as the overall deity and take Luck and Healing domains when I take Cleric level 1 (the potential build starts as Favoured Soul).
Please note: I have not yet done the RCR and this question is in relation to a potential build that might solve some of my dilemmas for my RP build

Luck, because this is a Red Knight domain and would come from her starting out as a Favoured Soul in the build but in her RP she is apprentice to a military barber surgeon who is training in both weapons and armour use and field medicine.

Healing, because of her dual worship of the Red Knight and Ilmater both of whom are involved in her daily life and duties, primarily she is a healer but she is a healer from a strong disciplined military background.

[DM Cradh]

I am sorry but you will not. Be able to do this. Domains are strictly enforced. Also favored souls who create and then switch to a different deity who has a different weapon is exploiting the system and will be deleted so we are also clear on that.

Thanks for the inquiry,
DM Cradh

[VitalTouch]

I understand, a shame though as she is ICly duel deity and will continue to rp that.

Back to the nwn2db drawing board then

But just so I'm being clear my intent was to mechanically represent her established RP not "exploit" something

Anyhoo thanks for your consideration.

[Deathgrowl]

I understand, a shame though as she is ICly duel deity and will continue to rp that.

Lorewise, as a cleric, you can't be duel deity (with a few exceptions like Angharradh being three gods in one and stuff like that). You have to have one patron.

[decado]

Would Dragonslayer work? Some CL progression, full weapons, armour and shields. Better than Favoured Soul.

[Rasael]

When it comes to their clergy deities are quite jealous. They normally don't approve of clerics worhipping other deities. Doing so usually results in the loss of your previous patron, which means your divine powers are with-held while you find a new patron.

There are some exceptions where Clerics can have dual patrons, but they are exceedingly rare. It is common on the other hand that Clergy refuse divine magic supplied by clergy from other deities, unless it is necessary to allow it in the situation. So for many churches there is a taboo on accepting help from other deities, and by extension from their heretic clergy. This is less profound when deities are allied, and very pronounced when deities are at odds. (ofcourse )

I imagine that Domain leeway would only be considered if it was earned through roleplay (overseen by a DM). So that your patron deity accepts your dual worship of another deity, so that you have two patrons.

It is possible for Favored souls to be worshippers of another deity than the one who supplies their divine powers. In that sense it is possible to be a favored soul of the Red Knight who worships Illmater. The open question though is whether Illmater would accept a favored soul of the Red Knight into his clergy.

I understand that the DM's answer that Illmater does not allow this unless roleplay on the server (overseen by a DM) indicates that he does. Otherwise we players would be free to make up how the gods feel about our characters. Which creates problems for other characters and the consistency of the setting.

[VitalTouch]

I understand, a shame though as she is ICly duel deity and will continue to rp that.

Lorewise, as a cleric, you can't be duel deity (with a few exceptions like Angharradh being three gods in one and stuff like that). You have to have one patron.

Lorewise for thisserver as the DMs have just ruled you are correct, one cannot be a Cleric in two faiths, however I wasn't proposing or suggesting Abernathy's was a Cleric of two different deities.

Obviously however its not universal or generic lore as other servers have a different slant on the topic so there it is and one cannot know if one does not ask, hence me asking in the first place.

Its my contention that in a polytheistic society a person may tip his/her hat to a certain deity is specific circumstances relevant to that deity.

For instance; A warrior who holds Tempus as his patron is unlikely to invoke Tempus when his wife is having trouble delivering a child, (no he is not going to pray to Tempus in the abstract that the wife is "battling" in labour, Tempus being the God of honourable combat is not being one for subtle abstracts and contextual interpretations of the words Battle, Combat, War and so on) He far more likely to offer a prayer however short to a deity more relevant to that specific circumstance.

In Abernathy's backstory she is raised from an infant in a military run orphanage in a military garrison city she was recruited into that military as a young child around eight to apprenticed with a barber surgeon in one of the company's of a mercenary regiment serving that in that city.

She was thus surrounded by many militant faiths practised by the mercenary solders of her regiment, Tempus, Red Knight, Torm etc, with Tempus preeminent in the regiment along with his exarch the Lady Red Knight.

As such before she became a priestess of Ilmater much later in her life she would have as a matter of course offered prayer and thanks to those militant deities and for her the Lady Red Knight was held more central than the others during this period.

When Abernathy had her epiphany aged around 15 years old (which is another story for another time) she embraced Ilmater as her patron and began her Errantry towards earning her spurs so to speak as a Battle Surgeon. So clearly she has not forgotten her military background in fact its still very much part of her core RP as anyone who joins one of her patrols will soon realise. She still considers and employs tactics and common sense in battle and when planning her patrols, as any good soldier would.
Part of this inevitably would IMO contain mention of the Lady Red Knight as tactics and planning are her portfolio and as much a part of her soldierly upbringing and culture as her training in armour and arms.

Belabouring my point further a Favoured Soul has an involuntary natural connection to the divine, where as becoming a Cleric is a deliberate choice that required work and study, being a Favoured Soul ICly would not prevent a character for making the choice to become a Cleric although there may be repercussions.

OOCly the case I was making for Abernathy is that she is the offspring of the union between an Aasimar and a Tiefling (her character lore from my years on NWN1 RP server) NWN2 with the Favoured Soul class opened up an avenue of a build that could represent her heritage in a way simply not possible before on the NWN1 RP server.

ICly if your character or any other has issue with Abernathy and her faith I believe that's a matter solely to be dealt with in character in game.

In trying to convert the mechanical build of Abernathy from NWN1 to NWN2 I have had to RCR several times as I learned more about the many differences and changes between the two games.
The build I proposed in my OP was simply one of several that made IC sense (to me at least) but this server has rules regarding domains that impacted on the build, that other servers do not have and I respect that.
However its not a matter of one "lore" being more correct than any other it simply is the bias of this server and there is nothing wrong with that, I posed the question to the DMs in the proper manner and they have answered and so the build has been scrapped and I have since done the RCR (hopefully the final one for this character!)

Ultimate the DMs have spoken and ruled against what I was requesting and that's an end to the matter, it doesn't matter about the merits and flaws in my argument so your comment and my reply are both redundant but I enjoy talking about my characters

See you in game!

[Passiflora]

Deathgrowl spoke of the Forgotten realms setting though, not of this server.

If other servers allow it for clerics, they're not following the forgotten realms setting, and are making homebrew stuff.

Of course you can pay respect to other deities. A priest of Tyr will pay respect to the triad and their followers. But paying respect and having two 'patron' deity is very different.

[mireigi]

You can worship as many deities as you want, even as a cleric, however, only one deity can be your patron deity, the one who grant you your spells and divine powers.

If you want to represent the Red Knight somehow in your build, just manually pick Luck of Heroes at 1st level. Since it's granted by the Luck domain (which the Red Knight have), that'll be your RP explanation for having it. However, RP-wise, you won't have received the Luck of Heroes feat through any divine means, but rather that you were always a little luckier than others when it mattered, and you interpret that as the Red Knight holding her hand over you.

[VitalTouch]

Deathgrowl spoke of the Forgotten realms setting though, not of this server.

If other servers allow it for clerics, they're not following the forgotten realms setting, and are making homebrew stuff.

Of course you can pay respect to other deities. A priest of Tyr will pay respect to the triad and their followers. But paying respect and having two 'patron' deity is very different.

I never said Abernathy had or has two "patrons" in the Clerical sense, but she does honour several deities primarily Ilmater as her actual "patron" in the Clerical sense, and the Lady Red Knight as she is a thinking soldier who assumes she will plan and prepare before battle and use tactics and stratagems in battle.

This is still an IC fact of her daily existence and its not about to change because of an OOC ruling made due to the server bias in regards to a particular proposed build lol.

I'm not sure I can break my point down any further than I already have but somehow people keep trying to impress on me their bias of "lore" as if to OOCly have me retcon the biography and history of an established character of mine for many years

[Passiflora]

There's also one thing. Though... perhaps on BG they let the Red Knight available as a choice (homebrew), I can't remember.


We're in 1349, and the time of trouble is around 1358.

— The Time of Troubles: Cast out from their otherworldly domains by the
overpower Lord Ao, the gods of Toril wander the Realms as mortals. They
seek the stolen Tablets of Fate, which are the key to their return. During this
dark period, known as the Time of Troubles, magic becomes unpredictable
and the prayers of the faithful go unanswered. By its conclusion, Faerûn’s
pantheon of gods witnesses the ascendancy of Cyric, Midnight (Mystra), and
the Red Knight, the death of Bane, Bhaal, Ibrandul, and Myrkul, and the
death and rebirth of Torm.

[DM Nilbog]

In the current timeline The Red Knight, or the Lady of Strategy answers to Tempus and that church until he grants her divinity as Passiflora stated a few years down the road.

[DM Eminence]

If it's about the validity of Red Knight as a deity, that has been covered a few times. It isn't lore breaking to worship her.

It's been reviewed multiple times in the past. The DM team has historically ruled that for all intents and purposes the Red Knight is a lesser goddess (of undetermined divine rank) in service to Tempus.

a Cleric of Red Knight appears in Icewind Dale in 1312DR.

Lengthier discussion can be found here
http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=35910

[NegInfinity]

There's also one thing. Though... perhaps on BG they let the Red Knight available as a choice (homebrew), I can't remember.


We're in 1349, and the time of trouble is around 1358.

Current commander of silver rose is favored soul of red knight, and there are several established worshippers of that particular deity.

As far as I know, the sitation with the red knight was discussed and settled with DM team by Aaron whatever-his-second-name-is in detail.