Hide & move silently

[Zanniej]

I was wondering if there are situations where both skills don't go hand in hand.
I can imagine that someone with a high hide skill might go to a place he knows someone else is going, hide there without moving until the other is gone, thus not needing any skill points in move silently...

But that is the only situation, and the only way I can imagine you not needing both skills. Are there situations where you would only need move silently?

And are there other situations where one skill could go without the other?

[Deathgrowl]

Move silently means being able to stand still without sound as well. So even if you're hiding somewhere, you're going to make sounds.

[Thorsson]

In my experience this is not the case. Standing still has stopped Bards detecting me.

[Deathgrowl]

My character has lots of listen and can hear people who stand still. You might get a bonus to MS for standing still, but you still need it.

[Zanniej]

It would be more logical if what Thorsson says is true. Since when standing still... you're not moving...

When you're not moving, you shouldn't have to check for "Move silently"...

But I'd like to know what is true. Does anyone have any factual proof of which of these statements is true? Or is the game programmed in a way that you can't have one without the other...?

[Aikura]

You continue to roll check Move Silently against opposing Listen rolls at the normal frequency regardless of whether or not you are moving. I guess they can still hear you breathing.

However, standing still applies a bonus to Listen, and moving applies a penalty to Move Silently. So Thorson is sort-of right; you are less likely to be heard when standing still and less likely still when the listener herself is in motion.

[Deathgrowl]

You continue to roll check Move Silently against opposing Listen rolls regardless of whether or not you are moving. I guess they can still hear you breathing.

Exactly.

The move silently skill represents training in breathing quietly and not making sounds with your clothes and all.

Have you ever tried standing perfectly still? Not making any sound? It is very hard, especially over longer periods!

[Aikura]

Those pesky elves can even hear your heartbeat, so be sure to quiet that as well.

[Zanniej]

Those pesky elves can even hear your heartbeat, so be sure to quiet that as well.

... which, as a monk, "could" be possible, as Danica Maupoissant did it once (thus meaning it should be possible for any monk and implemented into the server (for those not understanding digital sarcasm, this was just that ) )

In order to escape the vampire Kierkan Rufo's designs for her as his undead queen, Danica performed Physical Suspension - a death that is not death - the highest mark in the teachings of Grandmaster Penpahg D'Ahn by slowing her heartbeat, breathing and the flow of her blood to a point where all who would regard her, including Kierkan Rufo, as dead.

How well hidden would that be! Not a single elf still listening to your heartbeat or bloodflow

[Empoweredfan]

There should be a spell that canceles out sounds you might make. To counter Amplify.

But then, there should also be a way for DM's to detect who is and isn't sneaking. And not to mention areas where sneaking should be impossible, or be given a harsh penalty so that guards wasn't metagamed. (but I am of the mind that when you play a sneak, you should make the effort to use cover).

[duracele]

There should be a spell that canceles out sounds you might make. To counter Amplify.

But then, there should also be a way for DM's to detect who is and isn't sneaking. And not to mention areas where sneaking should be impossible, or be given a harsh penalty so that guards wasn't metagamed. (but I am of the mind that when you play a sneak, you should make the effort to use cover).

In THAT case i want my scrolls of sending!
seriously. people tell me i can`t have sending scrolls because that would diminish the value of wizard class and you want a spell that not only counters another spell completely but makes a key skill next to useless. nonono
never plaid a sneak but hipsing is extremely powerful in many situations combat and rp alike. whereas the listen skill is to my knowledge only there to counter those. a heavy investment if you max it out, which you have to to catch epic sneaks. a dedicated spotter/listener should always be able to counter a sneak imo.

[Empoweredfan]

The thing is, that a dedicated spot/listener, is usually just a dedicated listener.

[Aelcar]

Amplify's counter is the fact that you need to know there is a sneak to pop Amplify.

There is more to playing a sneak than hitting the "hide" button. Mechanical counters of stealth work exceedingly well, so the sneak needs to play smarter than the radar humanoid in question...

On a side note, Amplify and C&C have been around forever, and yet extremely few people have ever spotted my mage (which wasnt exactly a top stealther, having zero dedicated feats, merchant gear and subpar dex for a sneak). How you play makes a lot of difference. What Empoweredfan said about obstacles, for instance, is pretty important when one plays sneak.

[Deathgrowl]

Amplify's counter is the fact that you need to know there is a sneak to pop Amplify.

This is almost true. Amplify sure is a way to spot the sneak when you know there's a sneak around. But it's also a counter to being spied upon, being followed when you're intentionally going somewhere you don't want to be followed. You stop at a bottleneck of some kind, cast amplify and C/C and make sure there's no one around.

But indeed, these spells are 6sec/level spells, which means you can't just go around with them all the time.

[Storm Munin]

A silence spell would be a counter to amplify, rather a few disadvantages there though.

No one can hear you but...