So, I read through this thread a while ago about warlocks, but it seems to mainly concern Infernal warlocks (pacted with devils).
http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... lock+pacts
Is there any good material about warlocks that pact with demons? I'm thinking in particular about pacts with Lolth/handmaidens/other minions, but information in general about abyssal pacts are good too.
I've read about the warlock class in the relevant sourcebook and I've also looked into the Fiendish Codex I book, but I didn't feel I got enough clues on the role play.
Sources/material about abyssal/dark warlocks
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maseoo
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Sources/material about abyssal/dark warlocks
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Moltrazahn
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Re: Sources/material about abyssal/dark warlocks
http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=46675
Link by Rasael, better ask him where he got it from.
Link by Rasael, better ask him where he got it from.
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maseoo
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Re: Sources/material about abyssal/dark warlocks
Thanks!
Anyone else who has material/sources on the subject?
Anyone else who has material/sources on the subject?
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maseoo
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Re: Sources/material about abyssal/dark warlocks
I was just wondering one thing:
The link from Rasael says about Dark Pact warlocks: "Only very high level (upper epic) demons can make pacts for warlock powers."
The Fiendish Codex book mentions the CR of demons. Does the quote above mean that only demons of CR 21 (or even higher) can grant warlock powers? I can't seem to find any info about what level the demons are. The only creatures with a CR of 23 (max) are the Demon Lords. Yochlol (Lolth's demons) for instance are categorized as CR 8 and I thought they could grant warlock powers?
(Sorry for all the questions about this, while I've read a few pdfs I'm not so sure about the technical/numbers side of D&D things, like what level creatures might be...)
The link from Rasael says about Dark Pact warlocks: "Only very high level (upper epic) demons can make pacts for warlock powers."
The Fiendish Codex book mentions the CR of demons. Does the quote above mean that only demons of CR 21 (or even higher) can grant warlock powers? I can't seem to find any info about what level the demons are. The only creatures with a CR of 23 (max) are the Demon Lords. Yochlol (Lolth's demons) for instance are categorized as CR 8 and I thought they could grant warlock powers?
(Sorry for all the questions about this, while I've read a few pdfs I'm not so sure about the technical/numbers side of D&D things, like what level creatures might be...)
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maseoo
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Re: Sources/material about abyssal/dark warlocks
Trying to bump the thread questions one last time before dropping the subject:
- How can I find out what kinds of demons are powerful enough to grant warlock powers/invocations? I guess it's not their CR that determines this?
- Extra reading about Abyssal pacts, particularly in drow context?
- How can I find out what kinds of demons are powerful enough to grant warlock powers/invocations? I guess it's not their CR that determines this?
- Extra reading about Abyssal pacts, particularly in drow context?
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Moltrazahn
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Re: Sources/material about abyssal/dark warlocks
If memory serves... lesser tana'ri can indeed grant powers. CR dosent matter. What matters is that they serve as vassals for a greater power... ergo a spider demon of lolth could extend a yochlol to be the binder of that specific pact. Much like faustian baatezu does their own pacts.
The question is then... that if killing said yochlol ...will it end the pact or if this only extends to an official casselation of the pact.
The question is then... that if killing said yochlol ...will it end the pact or if this only extends to an official casselation of the pact.
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"You are a spastic pony" - HDM Arrakeen
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Myhun Kren: "You should change Za'thans mask to green, and run around yelling "Somebody STOP ME!"
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Rasael
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Re: Sources/material about abyssal/dark warlocks
The source material are several documents elaborating on pacting in D&D 1st, 2nd and 3rd edition, and the final introduction of the Warlock as class.
It is important to distinguish that pacts with outsiders aren't usually warlock pacts. A pact is normally an exchange of something for a specific result. The exchange involves making dark sacrifices and doing dark deeds, and gradually evolves into more bargains and "payments". Any entity can make such a pact because its just an exchange of promises. Devils and Demons do this to trick mortals into selling their souls, whether in exchange for some final thing, up-front, or by forfeiting on the terms.
Pacts for Warlock powers are a very specific type of bargain that only the mentioned high level outsiders can supply. A lesser creature might barter on behalf of his master but the deal will stick unless that master cancels it or is forced to relinquish it. The deal is with the master. For example: Cults are often approached by Abyssal or Infernal power-brokers acting on behalf of a powerful (epic) master entity.
The vast majority of warlock pacts are made in exchange for souls. Harvesting a willing corrupted soul and spreading misery and dark deeds is worth the investment of power flowing from the master into the recipient. Ofcourse Demons and Devils are happy to speed along matters to their inevitable conclusion. Demons may withhold power at a time, but normally back down when reminded of what they might forfeit. If the pact is forfeit the powers are gone, but you keep your soul. Pacts with demons allow for these interruptions, on account of temporary force-majeure, which the Demon will of-course lie about.
A smaller number (minority) of pacts is made with deities, far realm entities, Fey, and even Dragons. These too are always high level (epic) creatures. They offer such pacts in exchange for service, and sometimes your soul too, but aren't interested in maintaining more than a few agents to serve their interests. More agents would mean more power spent supplying the recipients, less power for own tasks and agendas.
It is important to distinguish that pacts with outsiders aren't usually warlock pacts. A pact is normally an exchange of something for a specific result. The exchange involves making dark sacrifices and doing dark deeds, and gradually evolves into more bargains and "payments". Any entity can make such a pact because its just an exchange of promises. Devils and Demons do this to trick mortals into selling their souls, whether in exchange for some final thing, up-front, or by forfeiting on the terms.
Pacts for Warlock powers are a very specific type of bargain that only the mentioned high level outsiders can supply. A lesser creature might barter on behalf of his master but the deal will stick unless that master cancels it or is forced to relinquish it. The deal is with the master. For example: Cults are often approached by Abyssal or Infernal power-brokers acting on behalf of a powerful (epic) master entity.
The vast majority of warlock pacts are made in exchange for souls. Harvesting a willing corrupted soul and spreading misery and dark deeds is worth the investment of power flowing from the master into the recipient. Ofcourse Demons and Devils are happy to speed along matters to their inevitable conclusion. Demons may withhold power at a time, but normally back down when reminded of what they might forfeit. If the pact is forfeit the powers are gone, but you keep your soul. Pacts with demons allow for these interruptions, on account of temporary force-majeure, which the Demon will of-course lie about.
A smaller number (minority) of pacts is made with deities, far realm entities, Fey, and even Dragons. These too are always high level (epic) creatures. They offer such pacts in exchange for service, and sometimes your soul too, but aren't interested in maintaining more than a few agents to serve their interests. More agents would mean more power spent supplying the recipients, less power for own tasks and agendas.