BG Content Expansion (poll until Oct 7th)

[Rasael]

Hello

The public BGTSCC Jegs testing module contains a lot of new content which can be added to the server. I think that at this point its representative for how that content would work, singleplayer limitations, remaining polish issues, and old BG-Jegs bugs aside.

I think we should hold a community vote so that we can see how everybody feels about adding this content to the server. Are there any downsides, things we'd want polished, disabled, or retooled?

Download the module and give it a try.

The content expansion offers a lot things but can be divided into a number of core modules,

• + Magic Replacement System ==> More spells, new metamagic(s), new spellbooks, dispel uses casterlevel, selectable opposition schools, vastly expanded spell radials, tons of other magic related features.
  
  + Divine Magic spells expansion ==> Domain spell list overhaul, and many new Divine spells added, deity specific spells added (most content requires magic replacement system).
  
  + Ranged Combat & Cover system ==> Elevation and cover are taken into account when attacking from range. A target may take cover behind placeables, trees, and even other creatures.
  
  + Melee Combat system Extension ==> A large amount of new melee feats / actions, a number of situations that may be triggered in melee combat: brace vs charge, use terrain to obstruct an opponents swings.
  
  + Light and Darkness system extension ==> Unless you have (or carry) light with you dark areas and times will incur penlaties, depending on the degree of darkness and your ability to see in the dark. Vice-versa for light-sensitivity.

Test it before you cast your vote. Each module contains interesting and (fairly) expansive content extensions. I call them extensions because the current rules and content remains mostly intact. We don't make old characters obsolete.

[Calodan]

I voted yes! Who doesn't like new content? MOre aptly does this content fix the dispel issue? What about true seeing and darkvision do they erase the light penalty you suffer when fighting in the dark? How about Blindfight feat? Does it also erase a penalty like that?

[Tsidkenu]

I will vote a cautious yes. I am keen for all new content but I know that the Magic Replacement system also requires all arcane spellcasters to re-choose their magic. I think it is important that wizards be given a lengthy forewarning of the implementation of the changes so we can have the time to scribe out our current known spells ready to add to our new spellbooks, perhaps also with DM assistance, because some wizards may not have enough GP to scribe out their entire spellbooks for the change over.

[Steve]

What does Luna think?

[Taintedglory]

Im hesitant of the ranged combat changes. Mostly because areas like cloakwood, the trees literally disappear and players walk through them without even realize they are there. If the arrows cant pass through those objects, then rangers will be useless in spots like that, unable to hit anything because of invisible trees.

[Deathgrowl]

As I have said numerous times, Rasael, the spell book is not good enough. Yes, it gives you more possibility for development of spells and metamagics, but it is absolutely terrible for the user. I seriously can't stand working with it.

I am also against implementing things that have no basis in PnP. There's often an argument that "something existing in PnP does not mean it should be on the server", and that I can agree with. But this is the other way around. We should not add things on the server that are homebrew or what people call "alternative rules", as they will shift the balance.

[mrieder79]

Neat. This is the first I've heard of this. Is there a location where the description of the changes is posted? Unfortunately my gaming computer is on the fritz right now and I can't experiment.

[gedweyignasia]

As I have said numerous times, Rasael, the spell book is not good enough. Yes, it gives you more possibility for development of spells and metamagics, but it is absolutely terrible for the user. I seriously can't stand working with it.

This is my biggest concern. After thinking about this, I'm not sure it's ready yet. I really like the mechanics, but I hadn't spent enough time thinking about the interface from a regular use perspective. It should be easy enough to fix most of this stuff though, right?

[Lockonnow]

well can you make a live youtube movie so we can see you ideas

[PaulImposteur]

The content seems nice however, I worry about a great number of issues, and possible exploits that could come from the Melee, and Ranged changes. I'm a bit set in my ways, when it comes to this game.

This content could easily make or break this community when it comes time to add them to the server. While 3/4ths of people may enjoy the update, the other quarter of people may leave because of it, which will likely cause them to bring friends.

It's a tough ball to get rolling, and I hope the content is well polished enough where people would feel comfortable with it. Personally I hope you try and format the spell UI to as closely resemble the base game's as possible. That sort of familiarity will help people become more comfortable with it.

[Nachti]

As I have said numerous times, Rasael, the spell book is not good enough. Yes, it gives you more possibility for development of spells and metamagics, but it is absolutely terrible for the user. I seriously can't stand working with it.

I agree. Of course it works, but some things like "getting spells on toolbar" is just too complicated.

I am also against implementing things that have no basis in PnP. There's often an argument that "something existing in PnP does not mean it should be on the server", and that I can agree with. But this is the other way around. We should not add things on the server that are homebrew or what people call "alternative rules", as they will shift the balance.

What of the named stuff do you consider as homebrew?

I dont think the server is balanced that well.

This content could easily make or break this community when it comes time to add them to the server. While 3/4ths of people may enjoy the update, the other quarter of people may leave because of it, which will likely cause them to bring friends.

People always leave and some of them leave because there is no new content.

[Shad]

I'm one of new players here, just starting to get the grip. I'm pretty much enjoying the server how it is. I like this game. And adding in and changing all mentioned at once would pretty much bring forth entirely new game, in the same time, the game I started to love would be no more.

I have ideas, I have plans, working out how to get involved, make fun for myself and others.
Most of mechanical part of it may become useless, having to be adopted to new ways, meaning several RCRs to all characters while we'll get to know each other with the new systems. And given the rule to behave according to (RP) the character list, which I take seriously, may lead to rewriting their stories.

Last three games I left just after big expansions. It's only good for people who either got from the old system all it could offer, or ones who don't know old one at all or don't care (you don't have to consider any systems at all except emotes to RP at campfires).

To sum it all.. I'm almost sure in adding new great quality content would attract playerbase in general, so it would be a good for community thing, because the most of this game's playerbase consist's of two groups I mentioned above.

That just hardly will include people like me, who play it from several months to half a year (excluding "don't care" group), and great considerate conservators.

[Rasael]

I voted yes! Who doesn't like new content? MOre aptly does this content fix the dispel issue? What about true seeing and darkvision do they erase the light penalty you suffer when fighting in the dark? How about Blindfight feat? Does it also erase a penalty like that?

Blindsight helps offset darkness penalties if my memory is accurate.

It includes the dispel fix as you say. I updated the description to clarify that.

You can test it in the linked example module. Please give it a go, you should know what you're voting for

Most of mechanical part of it may become useless, having to be adopted to new ways,

A big advantage of the content expansion is that it doesn't screw up any existing characters or builds unless they were purposely built around bugs that would be fixed. But then those bugs can be fixed without the expansion too, its not exclusive.

It can also be backed-out without any issues to existing or new characters. It doesn't screw anything up.

[gedweyignasia]

Most of mechanical part of it may become useless, having to be adopted to new ways,

A big advantage of the content expansion is that it doesn't screw up any existing characters or builds unless they were purposely built around bugs that would be fixed. But then those bugs can be fixed without the expansion too, its not exclusive.

It can also be backed-out without any issues to existing or new characters. It doesn't screw anything up.

I think what you're overlooking here is that when new things are added, old builds that were supreme in their niche are now obsolete because they haven't taken advantage of certain new tools that might have provided an advantage. "Screwing up existing builds" to the typical player means making their relative combat power lower compared to other competitive builds.

(Which is really just a powerbuilding complaint, not an RP complaint... But probably an important thing to address. Free RCR week?)

[chad878262]

Or server wipe... everyone starts at one and thus has nothing to worry about as they can build there character based on all the shiny new uber powers. .. and for rp'ers we can all start building new stories. This has the added benefit of not requiring DM time to oversee the rcr of one players 35 alternate characters.

*ducks to avoid the rotten vegetables (possibly containing hidden batteries or other hard objects)*