F/R/SD build - looking for comments and suggestions

[Vhaeraun Baen're]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?224938

[Theodore01]

A nice build,
as a tiefling i would start with 14 str and definitely take f4 at lv21 and get e.pres+expose weakness asap.

[mrieder79]

NO DETECTION SKILLS. Have you ever seen what happens when a sneaker gets sneaked? It's the fugue express. You've got tons of skill points. You should get some detection skills or you'll get sneaked, pickpocketed, and feinted. That's fine if you are a dumb fighter, but you are a ROGUE man. A Rogue. This is what you do.

You don't need 33 tumble, just 30. You don't need 33 UMD, drop UMD down to about 25 at the most. That will allow use of 4th level scrolls without failure. You can get items to bolster your UMD if you really have a burning desire to use higher level scrolls. Mostly wands are the best.

Unless you are doing it just for RP pursposes, drop the trapsetting. Mechanically they are worthless. Same for appraise. Virtually worthless skill. Again, unless it is for RP, drop it. If you moved some UMD, your Appraise, trapsetting to Spot and Listen, you should be fine.

You should end dexterity on an odd number to take advantage of the +3 dex items that are relatively easy to come by. You almost definitely won't find one that is +4. Start out with 19 dex instead of 20. That way you can still get to 30 dex with a +3 item. This will also give you some extra points to improve your con, str, or whatever else you want to improve.

You need to take expose weakness much earlier. You have low attack bonus, so you need it ASAP. Take it at 21 like Theo suggested.

I'm not sure your attack bonus is high enough for you to hit anything if you activate improved combat expertise. You could probably get away with regular combat expertise since you have expose, but with improved combat expertise your AB will be sort of low: only 35. (this is assuming you have a +4 eb weapon and +1 dexterity from a +2 item)

Your first attack will probably hit but the others will only hit rarely. This will kill your damage.

Test it in Jegs and see if you can hit anything with ICE on. If you can't I recommend substituting another feat. You might consider feint, but then you would need to max your bluff.

[Deathgrowl]

You don't need 33 tumble, just 30. You don't need 33 UMD, drop UMD down to about 25 at the most. That will allow use of 4th level scrolls without failure. You can get items to bolster your UMD if you really have a burning desire to use higher level scrolls. Mostly wands are the best.

Having 33 UMD is very useful. Means you can buy Shades, Enegry Immunity and Premonition scrolls and not have a chance to waste them. And those scrolls are fantastic in a lot of cases. You need 33 skill, though, not necessarily rank.

Unless you are doing it just for RP pursposes, drop the trapsetting. Mechanically they are worthless. Same for appraise. Virtually worthless skill. Again, unless it is for RP, drop it. If you moved some UMD, your Appraise, trapsetting to Spot and Listen, you should be fine.

- Set trap can be very powerful. The good electrical traps can hit for ~200 damage and is a chain lightning so it will hit several close targets.
- Appraise is great. It means you get more gold for various items. You'll still only be able to get 1350 max from Thunderhammer. But maybe there's an item that gives you 1000 gold without appraise and actually hits 1350 with appraise. That is pretty significant. It also lowers cost of items you want to buy from merchants. And there are some nice items out there that cost a lot. The bracers of blinding light, for instance, around 110k. WIth a lot of appraise, you can get them in the 90k area.

You should end dexterity on an odd number to take advantage of the +3 dex items that are relatively easy to come by. You almost definitely won't find one that is +4. Start out with 19 dex instead of 20. That way you can still get to 30 dex with a +3 item. This will also give you some extra points to improve your con, str, or whatever else you want to improve.

For a sneak it's usually best to end on an even number, actually. It is horrendously difficult to get a +3 dex item that also has hide/ms bonus. But getting a +2 dex item with +2 hide/ms is easy. Besides, then you'll also benefit from a Cat's Grace if you're in a party with a buffer. Better to encourage partying.

I'm not sure your attack bonus is high enough for you to hit anything if you activate improved combat expertise. You could probably get away with regular combat expertise since you have expose, but with improved combat expertise your AB will be sort of low: only 35. (this is assuming you have a +4 eb weapon and +1 dexterity from a +2 item)

Your first attack will probably hit but the others will only hit rarely. This will kill your damage.

I play a rogue20/sd10 with 6 less AB than this build. I can solo most of the server. Things have generally low AC and high HP or a bit of DR on BG. Your AB isn't a problem at all.

That said, I'd probably drop combat expertise entirely. Your defense comes from Epic Dodge and HiPS. You don't have feint, so you will have to continuously HiPS anyways to land sneak attacks.

Lastly, don't waste 30 points on spellcraft for 3 points of save vs spells. Fill up your UMD instead and carry a few spell mantle scrolls as well as greater/superior resistance for +3/+6 universal saves.

[mrieder79]

I beleive I have overstated. Appraise has a function, but in your case, you might consider putting more points toward detection. Same for trapsetting.

[Vhaeraun Baen're]

Thanks for the advice all. Had no idea if Expose Weakness was a good feat and prioritized PTWF instead. I also wasn't real sure what to do with the skills

[Thorsson]

My view is that AB will be a bit low for ICE with some opponents, because they won't have much Dodge AC, or maybe they have Uncanny Dodge. However once you get Expose Weakness you're probably OK.

All round though, if you compare to the standard Ro16/Asn9/IB5 you'll have a similar AB/AC with ICE turned on, but be doing less damage. You also miss out on the Assassin Spellbook and Death Attack, although you will have more HP.

Traps can be powerful, but you need to be very good at disabling them. Setting Traps is also very slow as a means of killing mobs. Appraise? It's OK, but being able to clear out areas will deliver more benefits over time.

I also feel bound to point out that Strongheart is better. OK you lose 33 skill points, but you gain 1AB, 1AC and a Feat, which can be used to get LoH and another AC (and +1 to Saves). Arguably with 2AC in the bag you can forget ICE and there's another Feat free...

[chad878262]

Just throwing it out there... As a stealth build you really want stealthy and skill focus move silently in place of combat expertise and ICE. Spot/listen are much easier to increase than stealth so you simply can't have enough detection.

Only reason to get CE for a sneak is to also grab feint. Otherwise as previously stated hips, epic dodge and umd are your defense.