Passive-aggressive emotes and RP

[Grimcheese]

These topics make for some interesting discussion, though!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not really interested in policing how people write about their character and their interactions with the world at large, because real life is stressful enough as is! As Considerate_ mentioned, not everyone has an extensive grasp of the English language, either because it is not their first language or not having as many opportunities to practice, and for the most part I believe most people understand the difference between that and someone being intentionally passive-aggressive.

But as long as you're writing and refining your writing, you're improving, as, really, the only real trick to good writing is practice, practice, practice. But until then, proper communication is a big help when it comes to clarifying things. Since we work with a text medium, intentions and meaning can get lost in translation, and sometimes you'll want to let the other player know if what is being conveyed to you is intentional.

[Deathgrowl]

"He gives the annoying man a glance."

In my experience, the people who do this know exactly what they are doing. It is passive aggressive, and there really is no excuse for it.

I do this, and I make no excuses for it. It's not coming from a passive aggressive place, either. It's an IC emote. It's the thought of my character. Indeed, it's the expression of my character as well.

And even if it was coming from an OOC place that the player thinks the annoying character is annoying, what is actually wrong with it? Would you rather prefer to get a tell saying "your character is OOCly annoying"? How is that in any way better than the euphemia of putting it in an IC emote? Because lets face it, my character is bloody well likely to find the annoying man annoying as well, if the is so annoying that he annoys me even OOCly.

I'm going to remain entirely unapologetic about RPing exactly what seems appropriate to me when faced with blatantly annoying characters.

[The Whistler]

bit edgy tbh mate

[Grinning]

*glances annoyingly at the annoying thread, annoyed*

[grymhild]

*wonders why others are godmodding her characters to be psions with uncontrollable telepathy*

[illithid]

I do this, and I make no excuses for it. It's not coming from a passive aggressive place, either. It's an IC emote. It's the thought of my character. Indeed, it's the expression of my character as well.

The issue in this sentence is whether "annoying" is used as descriptive of the man, or whether it's used as a running narrative of thought.

The first option can be emoted, though perhaps with confusion depending on who finds whom annoying, if there are several people present.

The second option cannot be emoted, as it would require..

psions with uncontrollable telepathy

But, there's always option 3:

The main rule is to be respectful of other Players, and remember that it's just a game.

[Valefort]

One can also assume the other people have no ill intentions at all, if they had some they failed and can be snarky all they want but alone and if they didn't then all is fine.

[Atlas]

-

[Endelyon]

I've tried to stay out of this one but I just want to convey a couple of things.

First of all I'd like to point something out. In real life, communication in real life is not entirely verbal. I think we're all aware of this but I think that it's very important for this fact to be highlighted. A great deal of emotion can be conveyed through expression, body language, and even tone of voice.

Here's an example:



Note the expression on her face as she rolls her head impatiently, blinking a few times in almost disgusted surprise, as if she finds whatever was said by the other person to be almost incredulous in nature.

Wouldn't you say she looks annoyed? Personally I can almost even read her thoughts. "Is this person serious? Dear god they're an idiot."

A lot of people, I've noticed, are not very thorough when it comes to emoting exactly what expression their character has on their face, or what kind of body language their character is using.

What this thread seems to amount to is splitting hairs over the language and wording used in peoples' emotes.

Let's consider the following two emotes:

1. *Looks at the annoying man*

2. *She turns her head towards the man, rolling her neck a bit impatiently and blinking a few times in a sort of stunned silence, as if she found something he had said or done utterly ridiculous. The look of annoyance would linger on her face for a few moments before she composed herself once more, her features finally softening to a more neutral expression.*

I bet those of you who don't find #1 acceptable think that #2 on the other hand is just fine.

Both of these emotes mean EXACTLY THE SAME THING. When a person is using such descriptors in their emotes, it' s not because they think your character is annoying in an OOC fashion, which seems to be how some people are taking it.

The only actual gray area that exists is exactly how UNFILTERED your character is when it comes to what they would convey with their body language or facial expression. To use my own as an example, Endelyon is quite practiced at masking her emotions when it comes to terms of diplomacy or debate. She's not going to look at Duke Belt like he's an idiot, even when he's being an idiot. On the other hand, in a more casual or social setting with her friends or among her peers (basically, times she feels at ease) she's likely to remove the filter she has in place, and let her thoughts reach the surface much more easily.

So if Endelyon is saying something that would irritate the crap out of your character, and your character thinks she's being particularly mouthy or petulant (and believe me, she gets that way), go for it! Emote something like *Looks at the bitchy, loud woman* if you want. If that's the way Endelyon is acting, that's the way I expect her to be treated, and I imagine that it's quite realistic for people to look at her like she's being annoying if she acts annoying. It doesn't mean they think she's annoying in an OOC fashion, or thinks my roleplay is annoying, which seems to be how a lot of people are perceiving it.

Just my two cents. You're all wonderful people and I love you bunches OOC, but just as we have conflict and annoy each other with our opinions in this thread, our characters would have such conflicts as well, and they might not treat each other as respectfully as we do here. It's realistic, it's fun, and at the end of the day, it's roleplay.

EDIT: Just want to add a "P.S." to my thoughts. Atlas makes a good point that we should all try to work on our sentence structure and conveyance, the more visual descriptors you can add to your writing the better. Really make an attempt to describe how your character is conveying his or her annoyance. It makes you a better writer and better writing makes for a better narrative. HOWEVER, at the end of the day, I think this is more of an ideal we should strive for than a standard that people should be held to. After all, RP happens in English and English is not even everyone's first language.

[Halo Deity]

Hidden: show

TL;DR












(hehe kidding)

I understand what the OP is saying but I have to agree with Endelyon on this to an extent. I think if it's in the boundaries of your character then it's IC. If you do however make insults (name-calling) in these emotes, then it's in bad taste in my opinion as it leaves no room for defence. Characters can't read minds and I don't think the emote should over share, since I find the only usefulness of them is to give a general mood/feeling from the RP/Character in question.

Just my two cents. You're all wonderful people and I love you bunches OOC, but just as we have conflict and annoy each other with our opinions in this thread, our characters would have such conflicts as well, and they might not treat each other as respectfully as we do here. It's realistic, it's fun, and at the end of the day, it's roleplay.

Group hugs?!?!!!
Whooooo!

[AkaiKishin]

I've tried to stay out of this one but I just want to convey a couple of things.

First of all I'd like to point something out. In real life, communication in real life is not entirely verbal. I think we're all aware of this but I think that it's very important for this fact to be highlighted. A great deal of emotion can be conveyed through expression, body language, and even tone of voice.

Here's an example:

Note the expression on her face as she rolls her head impatiently, blinking a few times in almost disgusted surprise, as if she finds whatever was said by the other person to be almost incredulous in nature.

Wouldn't you say she looks annoyed? Personally I can almost even read her thoughts. "Is this person serious? Dear god they're an idiot."

A lot of people, I've noticed, are not very thorough when it comes to emoting exactly what expression their character has on their face, or what kind of body language their character is using.

What this thread seems to amount to is splitting hairs over the language and wording used in peoples' emotes.

Let's consider the following two emotes:

1. *Looks at the annoying man*

2. *She turns her head towards the man, rolling her neck a bit impatiently and blinking a few times in a sort of stunned silence, as if she found something he had said or done utterly ridiculous. The look of annoyance would linger on her face for a few moments before she composed herself once more, her features finally softening to a more neutral expression.*

I bet those of you who don't find #1 acceptable think that #2 on the other hand is just fine.

Both of these emotes mean EXACTLY THE SAME THING. When a person is using such descriptors in their emotes, it' s not because they think your character is annoying in an OOC fashion, which seems to be how some people are taking it.

The only actual gray area that exists is exactly how UNFILTERED your character is when it comes to what they would convey with their body language or facial expression. To use my own as an example, Endelyon is quite practiced at masking her emotions when it comes to terms of diplomacy or debate. She's not going to look at Duke Belt like he's an idiot, even when he's being an idiot. On the other hand, in a more casual or social setting with her friends or among her peers (basically, times she feels at ease) she's likely to remove the filter she has in place, and let her thoughts reach the surface much more easily.

So if Endelyon is saying something that would irritate the crap out of your character, and your character thinks she's being particularly mouthy or petulant (and believe me, she gets that way), go for it! Emote something like *Looks at the bitchy, loud woman* if you want. If that's the way Endelyon is acting, that's the way I expect her to be treated, and I imagine that it's quite realistic for people to look at her like she's being annoying if she acts annoying. It doesn't mean they think she's annoying in an OOC fashion, or thinks my roleplay is annoying, which seems to be how a lot of people are perceiving it.

Just my two cents. You're all wonderful people and I love you bunches OOC, but just as we have conflict and annoy each other with our opinions in this thread, our characters would have such conflicts as well, and they might not treat each other as respectfully as we do here. It's realistic, it's fun, and at the end of the day, it's roleplay.

EDIT: Just want to add a "P.S." to my thoughts. Atlas makes a good point that we should all try to work on our sentence structure and conveyance, the more visual descriptors you can add to your writing the better. Really make an attempt to describe how your character is conveying his or her annoyance. It makes you a better writer and better writing makes for a better narrative. HOWEVER, at the end of the day, I think this is more of an ideal we should strive for than a standard that people should be held to. After all, RP happens in English and English is not even everyone's first language.

That's a well written piece but it just so happens i've played with a fair share of non-english speakers who've managed to avoid that entirely and the fact that you've written this actually proves this is more prevalent among people who's problem is not articulation.

It doesn't take a masters in lingual studies to evoke a gesture or flat out say "this man is annoying" intead of emoting "she thinks he is annoying".

If that's how you roll i'm not judging but do be considerate towards others in letting them know this is not simply rp-veiled trolling in some fashion if you would be so kind.

It doesn't take alot from someone to do that and it makes everyone happier in the end by creating less needless friction.

And even if it was coming from an OOC place that the player thinks the annoying character is annoying, what is actually wrong with it? Would you rather prefer to get a tell saying "your character is OOCly annoying"?

The difference lies in the OOC/IC boundaries.
What you describe is someone who doesn't belong on an rp server.

[Endelyon]

If that's how you roll i'm not judging but do be considerate towards others in letting them know this is not simply rp-veiled trolling in some fashion if you would be so kind.

I'm sorry, I don't do this to people, ever, nor will I take the time to qualify to anyone that my characters thought's are not my own thoughts. If you think people are trying to troll you with their roleplay I think you're just being a little bit paranoid. I try to have a more optimistic view of the community and the people I play with and assume that IC things are for IC reasons.

[Deathgrowl]

It irks me greatly in fact that a long time veteran of BGTSCC can indeed act like what you have said is a valid and moral stance in this situation; much less get away with it for years and years without reprimand. And I have very few memories of interactions with any of your characters, so again I must assume ignorance as to whether this is what you have been doing for years and years, or not; and only respond based on what you have said.

We haven't RPed a lot, but let me just start by saying that the times I have RPed with you have been enjoyable. As opposed to many other players here, who will pounce at the chance to criticise you, I have actually read about several different types of paladins. Some similar to yours. You play a fine paladin. Strict, militant and not the most merciful - but then, he isn't Ilmateri. And that is fine.

I have actually tried to actively RP with you a few times, but it's a bit difficult to reach in. Partly because I haven't played characters that are very relatable to yours. But it also seemed like you didn't have much interest in me. But maybe I perceived that wrong. If so, I apologise.

And your character isn't designed to be annoying. That is very important in this case. The reason I have "gotten away with it", is because I don't write in a way to deliberately make the players feel bad. So there's nothing really to get away with. I'm just RPing.

What you are doing here, is arguing the merits of being lazy; instead of making the effort to structure sentences and type narrative at the very least at a elementary or primary school level qualification; to which I always assumed everyone here had.

No, no. I'm arguing that the two are different only semantically. And don't get me wrong, I use both variations. But that's also why. They are variations.

I'm just going to hope that what you meant to say here was that you will remain entirely unapologetic about maintaining the integrity of an arch type you assume in-game, and his/her reactions to his/her environment and the setting of this game itself.

Yes. In a sense. But I also said it because some players deliberately design their characters to be annoying, just as other characters are designed to be charming or intimidating. And that is fine. If I am then RPing *groans at the annoying man*, then that is a validation of that design. And that is basically when it is used. Not when a character happens to be annoying without being clearly designed to be so. And seeing the difference is quite obvious.

Lastly, when I said your stance on this issue is wrong, it is not me playing the Devil's Advocate for the person (and there always is at least one) who decides to ruin the annual Beregost fair, every year. I am talking about how this kind of sentence structuring, regardless of how innocent you believe it to be; can foster in the minds of honest players; discontent and hurt feelings. Especially when there is never a chance for discourse between parties in order to resolve such potential issues among the player base.

Again, it's just semantics. I do understand that some people may take the *facepalms at the annoying man* to be a critique of them as a player. But that is really, really not the case. If anything, it's a critique of the character. But it's as much a critique of the character as it would be emoting *yawns at the man, annoyed*. Both, as Endelyon rather better than me points out, say the exact same thing.

When I RP *huffs at the annoying man*, I'm by no means suggesting that everyone should consider the man annoying. I'm saying that is what my character feels. And that's how I RP. And it is a little bit presumtuous to make the claim that I RP wrong. As that is also entirely subjective.

And lastly: If you have an issue with someone RPing in a certain way, ask them to clarify if it means so much. If not, let me reiterate what Valefort said just a few posts ago:

One can also assume the other people have no ill intentions at all, if they had some they failed and can be snarky all they want but alone and if they didn't then all is fine.

[thids]

You people are just grasping at straws here and making excuses for what should be unacceptable roleplay. "Annoying" is the least offensive word out there that someone in the thread took earlier as an example and now we're just rolling with it, so it makes this seem a lot less important than it is.

It's not even about offending the player, or calling their character "annoying" or whatever other adjective you want to attribute to them, it's about basics of roleplay. I do not care what your character thinks about my character unless you express it in words or a proper emote. *Looks at the annoying man* is not a proper emote, it is borderline metagaming unless it has been somehow established by someone in the encounter (or a previous one) that the man is annoying in words. Annoyed is completely different than dirty for an example. If someone is dirty, they are dirty. Period. It is a factual thing that can't be denied.
If someone is annoying, that is completely a subjective opinion. If your character makes it clear that they are annoyed by the other character with a proper emote or in words, then by all means, in future encounters feel free to use "the annoying man" as a part of your emotes in regards to that particular character. But at that point if you emote *looks at the annoying man* you aren't emoting annoyance, you are emoting looking at the man that your character generally finds annoying. *Facepalms at the annoying man* would convey what you want properly though (if it has been established that your character finds their character annoying before). If you have troubles establishing that, then a pm saying "hey, my character finds your character extremely annoying. I'm going to be using "annoying man" (or a string of similar words) as an adjective for your character in the future. No OOC offense intended." goes a long way. That is if you are intent on RPing it this way.


Also, stop trying to show it as a necessity of some kind by comparing that single short faulty emote with an emote the length of an entire paragraph. Going to the extremes shows a skewed image of the problem at hand. That same short faulty emote can be expressed properly in the same length. a simple "seems annoyed by the man" is enough to make it a proper emote.

1. *Looks at the annoying man*

2. *She turns her head towards the man, rolling her neck a bit impatiently and blinking a few times in a sort of stunned silence, as if she found something he had said or done utterly ridiculous. The look of annoyance would linger on her face for a few moments before she composed herself once more, her features finally softening to a more neutral expression.*

I bet those of you who don't find #1 acceptable think that #2 on the other hand is just fine.

Both of these emotes mean EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

They are not the same thing. In the first one you emote your character looking at a man she generally finds annoying with no particular stance or expression towards him. The second one is self explanatory.


edit:

This is just another RP police topic. They always seem to pop up from time to time. If you don't like how someone RPs then don't interact with them or grow up and realize not everything revolves around you and how you feel proper RP should be. If someone is consistently harassing you IG whether through OOC comments or IC comments after you ask them kindly OOC to leave you alone then screenshot and send it to the DMs.

Trying to tell others how they are allowed to RP, aside from thing that break lore or server rules, never ends well.

No, it's not a RP police thread. It's about discussing some basics in roleplay. People new to RP (or even veterans) can actually learn something from this thread by reading through it. But I suppose instead of actually teaching people something in a friendly manner, the "BG way" is to just keep quiet while you "suffer" someone's RP, put on a fake smile and pretend nothing is wrong. Then proceed to gradually cut those whose RP you find faulty out of your clique.

(not calling you out here for anything, but your post propagates that usual "let's put on a smile and pretend everyone is great at everything!" attitude, which is more damaging than useful)

[DM Eminence]

I will not comment on the topic itself other than no one should tell someone else how they should RP. If it is something rule breaking, please come to us about it.


I shall add a reminder here of that a respectful tone should be kept in discussions. Discussions are for disagreeing & agreeing... and all the things in-between! Not everyone will agree but that is OK. The world would be a much different place if everyone agreed on everything