Full bard vs Dissonant Chord

[Zanniej]

I was wondering: Are there downsides to taking Dissonant Chord opposed to full bard? As far as I can see, it doesn't seem to have any downsides. . .

Is that true or am I missing something?

[mrm3ntalist]

You lose an epic feat, two if you take all the 5 levels

[Tsidkenu]

Ask Endelyon!

*casts Summon Endelyon to this thread*

[PiaMango]

You will also lose 5 damage to your requiem and I believe one of the lesser used songs has dc based upon bard levels. Curse song should be unaffected, unless you have ridiculous perform gear and decide to battle in it.

[Steve]

What I find a downside to the PrC in general—aside from as M3nt points out, the loss of Epic Feats from a full Bard—is that Dissonent Chord levels do not count toward the 25 level cap for Anti-Magic Melody.

- Anti-Magic Melody: At 5th level, a dissonant chord can use her Perform skill to negate magic. This works as Mordenkainen's Disjunctions with a cap equal to her bard level (no prestige classes count and this has a +25 max cap). This potent ability is quite exhausting to use as each time it is activated it uses four of her bardic music uses for the day.

A loooooooong time ago I brought this up with Luna, who agreed it should be changed, making DS levels stack toward the 25 Cap (essentially, allowing the Player to build a Bard 20 / DS 5 / xx 5 plan, and still get the maximum Melody).

[Endelyon]

Ask Endelyon!

*casts Summon Endelyon to this thread*

Hi! *wave*

You lose two epic feats as mrm3ntalist stated. Additional things you lose out on are bard songs per day. A level 30 bard gets 30 bard songs per day. A 25 bard/5 dissonant chord gets 25 songs per day. You don't lose any requiem damage, and you don't lose Legionnare's March or Hymn of Requiem or anything like that.

Now, let's talk about what you GAIN. Having played one, Dissonant Chord is one of the best PRCs on the module imo. You get a free Skill Focus: Perform that adds 3 requiem damage and 1.5 to several DCs. You gain Break Concentration aura that does 5 + Charisma mod damage to a foe (-17 for Endelyon). When stacked with curse song (18 for Endelyon) your foes suffer -35 concentration. Inspire Jarring (4) for -39. Taunt (2) for -41.

-41 concentration!

Another cool thing you get is the upgrade to "Countersong." Endelyon can give anyone in her party (but not herself) 45 SR that blocks up to 10 or 12 spells before going away.

45 Spell Resistance!

Oh, right. And then there's the Anti-Magic song, which breaches your opponent, dispels them, and lowers their SR as a level 25 mords spell. This costs a hefty 4 bardsongs a day, but it can also be used even if you have less than 4 songs, so with 25 songs I end up with 7 uses a day if needed.

A loooooooong time ago I brought this up with Luna, who agreed it should be changed, making DS levels stack toward the 25 Cap (essentially, allowing the Player to build a Bard 20 / DS 5 / xx 5 plan, and still get the maximum Melody).

As long as we're buffing Dissonant Chord, why not go all out? Give the PRC full BAB. Might as well just make the mords song based off your character level as well. Oh, right. Heal as a class skill, and free martial weapon proficiency feat pls!

I'm only teasing you Steve. I think the PRC is already one of the best in the game (trading basically nothing from a 30 bard -- what will you do with your two epic feats? Some stat +2?) already, but honestly, I wouldn't mind it if you could do a 20 fighter/5 DC/5 Swash build or something. Kinda even sounds fun to RP!

[PiaMango]

Are you certain it doesnt alter requiem damage? The custom changes to the server says its (bard level + perform)/2

[Zanniej]

--- lot's of talk here ---

-- And some more here --

Yes, but you're ofcourse a CHA-based bard. Are those advantages still as big if you're not charisma based?

[Considerate_]

Huh... Is the feat description wrong, or am I just reading it wrong?

Subject: Re: New Classes

- Bardic Music: A dissonant chord's class level stacks with any levels of bard she has for purposes of determining the number of times per day she may use bardic music and the effects of all bardic music. Dissonant chord levels do not stack with bard levels for determining which songs a bard has access to.

So for instance a level 8 Bard would have access to:
Inspire Courage +2
Inspire Competence +2
Inspire Defense +2
Inspire Regeneration +1
Inspire Toughness +1

Whereas a 5th level Bard and 3lvl Dissonant would only have access to:
Inspire Courage +1
Inspire Competence +2
Inspire Defense +2

But both would have 8 songs.




Now, I haven't played a Dissonant Chord PRC, so I don't doubt you're right... I'm just feeling confused by the PRC description and your description!

[mrm3ntalist]

Huh... Is the feat description wrong, or am I just reading it wrong?

Subject: Re: New Classes

- Bardic Music: A dissonant chord's class level stacks with any levels of bard she has for purposes of determining the number of times per day she may use bardic music and the effects of all bardic music. Dissonant chord levels do not stack with bard levels for determining which songs a bard has access to.

So for instance a level 8 Bard would have access to:
Inspire Courage +2
Inspire Competence +2
Inspire Defense +2
Inspire Regeneration +1
Inspire Toughness +1

Whereas a 5th level Bard and 3lvl Dissonant would only have access to:
Inspire Courage +1
Inspire Competence +2
Inspire Defense +2

But both would have 8 songs.




Now, I haven't played a Dissonant Chord PRC, so I don't doubt you're right... I'm just feeling confused by the PRC description and your description!

What the text you quoted means is that Dissonant Chord stacks with bard levels to determine number of songs ( that's straightforward ) and effects of bard music. so bard15/Dissonant Chord5 will get the +1 on courage that a bard20 would get.

Dissonant chord levels do not stack with bard levels for determining which songs a bard has access to.

The last line means that in the example above, the bard15/DC5 wont get the legionnaires march that bard gets at lvl18. When it becomes bard18/DC5 then he will get legionnaires march

[Considerate_]

Okay, thank you for clearing that up for me. Just to be certain then, in that case, the below is incorrect?

Additional things you lose out on are bard songs per day. A level 30 bard gets 30 bard songs per day. A 25 bard/5 dissonant chord gets 25 songs per day.

So basically all you lose out on, is the two epic feats if you take all five levels of the PRC?

[mrm3ntalist]

Okay, thank you for clearing that up for me. Just to be certain then, in that case, the below is incorrect?

Additional things you lose out on are bard songs per day. A level 30 bard gets 30 bard songs per day. A 25 bard/5 dissonant chord gets 25 songs per day.

I don't know why Endelyon posted that. It shouldn't suppose to happen, but I have to admin that if he says that that might be the case. I will need to check that, but if it happens it is a bug

So basically all you lose out on, is the two epic feats if you take all five levels of the PRC?

Yes, you are only supposed to lose two epic feats.

[Endelyon]

Yeah it's a bug, me and Karond did test it for the QC forums and Karond had a fairly plausible theory as to why it happens, but I can't remember what it was now.

Anyway, long story short, 25 Bard/5 Dissonant Chord is SUPPOSED to have 30 songs. In actually play, it only gets 25.

[Considerate_]

Hmm, suppose a quick fix would be to give the class a bonus feat for those extra four songs? Just a thought if there isn't any easy solution to it.


... But darn, that's a very good PRC!

[Zanniej]

So, in the end you'll lose 2 feats and 5 songs?

Still doesn't answer my question: Is it worth it for non-cha based bards