Dragon Warrior Changes

[grunts]

Grunts

The class has perfect reasons to have diplomacy and tumble.

In Pen and Paper, Dragon Warriors get a charisma bonus when talking with dragons of the same blood as they are.

Furthermore, dragon warriors often share hideout with dragons, or at least very closeby. This means mountains most of the time. Now, tumble is the best standin for climb.

I disagree.

As long as tumble gives the ability to jump in and out of melee combat and +3 passive AC it has little to do with climbing. Furthermore feats of Dexterity are one of the few things Dragons are NOT good at. So it makes even less sense for a Dragon Warrior to have Tumble then many others without it, like Fighter.

As far as Diplomacy goes, getting a Charisma bonus toward a single race does not equal being more diplomatic in general. Diplomacy simply has nothing to do with the Dragon Warrior class. A fact even further realized when you read the rather limited class description:

http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7826&start=15

[Blackman D]

dragons are actually well known for their dexterity however only when they are young which is what most dragon related PrCs trend after, dragon mobility gets worse with age but PrCs tend to be on the level of a wyrmling

that being said tho SR is something they dont get till they get older, its their trade off for the mobility so giving any dragon PrC SR wouldnt make much sense but you can easily argue in favor of tumble translating into other abilities as you are talking about the age group where dragons are most nimble

however fact remains tumble gives dodge AC and multiple AC bonuses are likely not going to happen

[Steve]

Dragon stats...and more. I think dexterity is represented in the low end of the spectrum...throughout their life.

[Blackman D]

steve they dont even use dex for like anything, the only two feats they have with dex as a prereq requires a 9 dex

they are basically always flat footed and are only hard to hit because of NA

dragon nimbleness is their actual ability to move; climbing, swimming, jumping, flying, borrowing which they use strength for, and obviously we dont have all of those skills but you can argue tumble can stand in as a replacement, tumble itself just happens to be dex based

use of the term dexterity was in reference to the actual tasks they do, not the stat

[Steve]

Hahaha...you just actually associated nimbleness with Strength.

I guess dragons are the exception to the rule of "play your sheet!" Hahaha.

[Blackman D]

yea dragons are weird like that

all their stuff is either str or con based, some cha based DCs like frightful presence, but the only thing really tied to movement ability is their size, the actual tasks tho are all str based

and even tho the older and bigger they get the worse their maneuvering gets they still have feats they can take to improve it, like wingover and fly by attack

[Thorsson]

I say, why don't we give the Dragon Warriors some Strength & Con as well as the AC, seeing as these are typical of Dragons....

[Steve]

I say, why don't we give the Dragon Warriors some Strength & Con as well as the AC, seeing as these are typical of Dragons....

You really shouldn't forget about the CHA boost. Ooh! How about wings as well!!!

On another note: considering BGTSCC has about 3 years worth of backlogged Dev updates/additions/upgrades to sort out, maybe we should all just hold off on the current wave of change requests, until we can a) get the Autodownloader to work, b) make sure Duster doesn't burn out in the newly undertaken upkeep of Dev projects, c) see a significant and constant, reliable stream of past updates make their way live, without hosing the Server in the process. Waddaboutit?!?

[Blackman D]

would be easier to reintroduce dragon disciple since it is the PrC that mimics dragons the most if the point is to be an actual dragon, with 10 levels being effectively a wyrmling, to include wings along with claw and bite natural attacks

draconomicon has 10 additional dragon based PrCs and none of them have ability increases and only a few give NA bonuses and only 1 that gives SR, but its a monk type PrC but it lets you be an unarmed fighter and take the PrC and essentially turn into a dragon based monk without the lawful restriction which is useful for chaotic dragon followers

but either way not all dragon PrCs give draconic traits so dont expect any to be added just because

maybe we should all just hold off on the current wave of change requests

yea probably needed, but its not like anyone is gonna say dont suggest something

[metaquad4]

I think most/all of us know that we have a **** ton of backlogged updates.

Regarding more "major" character content (new feats, classes, overhauled classes, etc) suggestions, its more about posting up what we think would be neat, and seeing how people react to it. Maybe the off-chance a DM will bring it to DM land, but, content updates (atleast for me) are never expected to yield something. Expecting that just sets you up for disappointment!

There is a very slim chance that it'll be taken into consideration by the developers (but still a chance). It'll generate conversation, and it helps one gauge what people like and don't like (perhaps even sparking some new ideas and points). And, it doesn't really hurt to suggest anything.

[Blackman D]

well thats why no one is gonna say dont but honestly a lot of the suggestions are taken into consideration its just with the blockage it gets easier to just point out what likely wont work rather than join in debates about what people feel is considered underpowered all the time