Drow Exile?

[Lyrae]

Hello all!
I'm new to the server, and I was wondering if there was a way to play as a surface drow that has been exiled from underdark.. Maybe follow the path of Drizzt? =D
What i mean to ask is..
Is there a way for a new character to exit underdark at all?

[Tsidkenu]

Players can exit the Underdark, yes, but it is a long and treacherous journey through some of the nastiest beasts on the server.

Either that, or pay for a UD toon with surface connections to teleport you up top.

All the while you need to keep in mind that surface grinding for UD toons is prohibited, as is UD grinding for surface toons. If you're 'up top', you need to have a reason to be there IC and DM approved.

It'd be far far easier in my opinion to play a drow exile who is now living in Sshamath (esp. if you have a male drow), having left their original city of residence. You can find a way to the surface, if that is your wish, after RPing accordingly and starting to make links.

In any case, drow on the surface, if discovered, are considered no-out PVP, meaning any character who identifies you as a drow can attack you on sight simply for that reason if they so choose, and may incur a perma-strike against your character (3 perma-strikes and your character will be forced to retire by DMs).

Subject: PVP Rules and Guidelines (MUST READ)

PVP Rules and Guidelines

[snip]

<< Underdark Versus Surfacers >>

• Underdark players on the surface, and surface players within the tunnels of the Underdark (excluding the city of Sshamath), are consenting to PvP. They may be killed on sight.
  Players outfitted in such a way that hides their skin, eyes, and other identifying features (hoods are not acceptable for this purpose) must be RPed into PVP as per the PVP rules above. Patterns of speech, accents, body language, and things of the sort are discerned only through roleplay. In order to figure out whether a Drow is in fact a Drow you must spend the time uncovering it through RP: You may not metagame use of the player's bio, the fact that the name sounds funny, or the drow's "size." The same applies for Surfacers within the Underdark tunnels.

[DM Eminence]

We have had these kind of things come up before and we discourage people (in fact we have said a plain "no") when asked about creating a drow for who the sole purpose is to live on the surface. There have been some drow characters who spend time on the surface, some extensively but they have had good underlying reasons and have not been created for that purpose.

If your RP brings your character to the surface, all good. But please have some reasons for such RP other than wanting to be on the surface. Also keep in mind that drow are kill on sight, there is no PvP out necessary and drow characters risk a perma strike in PvP encounters.

Tsidkenu gives good advice with that it is easier and also can be very rewarding RP to play a drow exile in Sshamath. I would prefer a player choosing a concept like that instead of something which carries more potential of conflict and let us face it, unhappy feelings.

Please also read the Server Rules in detail as they go more in depth about drow on the surface (and also surfacers in the UD).

Subject: GENERAL SERVER RULES [MUST READ]

[Israe]

If you're wanting to go "Good" drow house Oreb'le'i is an Eilistraeeian house in the UD. As for going to the surface, I can speak from experience as a drow player, you really don't want to go up there until you're level 30. The basic facts are you will get attacked at some point, and can be perm striked there. My char spends a lot of time on the surface (Going back and forth often) with major IC reasons for being there, and I've been attacked more times than I can count. The RP up there towards drow is EXTREMELY hostile, you aren't going to meet your best friend there. That being said, it isn't that hard to get to epic levels in drow if you're dedicated to it, and the drow rp'ers are some of the best I've seen on the server. There are plenty of us that help other drow out and will go out of our way to assist you, and you will get to the surface at some point, just don't expect to see roses and welcoming banners.

[Storm Munin]

+1

Being exiled from Sshamath was also fun, and mechanically irksome until they added the undrek valanar trader.


If you are up for the challenge ahead, by all means go for it with the idea of surface life but dont expect mercy from players or dms (rightfully so).

There are some connections to render aid for one reason or another, but as has already been mentioned living on the surface does not qualify as a reason for staying Above.

[grymhild]

Its no secret that i completely disagree that Eilistraeen or Vhaeraunian drow don't belong on the surface, or with the idea of needing to be epic level to reach or rp on the surface

though i played Drathyrra in Sshamath for a year before she had reasons to leave Sshamath and travel to the surface, she made it on her own (through the maze) at level fifteen (and maybe could have made at a lower level)

aside from a few return trips to the ud for magical supplies, she's been on the surface now for four months and has made a few allies

(although to be fair, she has also been killed twice in unfortunate pvps, - earning a permastrike, and is currently still dead)

[DM_Absolution]

Its no secret that i completely disagree that Eilistraeen or Vhaeraunian drow don't belong on the surface

Worshippers of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun both seek to establish more permanent presence on the surface, which is written in most lore books that speak of these two gods.

"Every cleric works to establish some sort of permanent drow settlement on the surface, and either supports that settlement's needs personally, or (preferably) make them self-supporting"
- Faith and Pantheons, page 114 (Vhaeraun)

From the Dogma of Eilistraee

"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms above, in the land of the great light. Come in peace and live beneath the sun again where trees and flowers grow"

- Faith and Pantheons, page 23 (Eilistraee - Dogma)

Not going to go into massive details, but there are drow that seek to establish a presence on the surface, and -i- for one would love to see this played out. Not because i personally love Underdark, but because you inhibit drow who worship these two gods from playing their character to the fullest. But travelling and living on the surface should, and does come with a lot of risk. -See below

1) Permadeath strikes
2) Drow are KOS, though not all characters would instantly attack a drow on sight. (Depends on alignment and on the character itself)
3) Aiding the drow without being able to explain why your character would do so should be punished. Pretty much boils down to not playing what is on your character sheet and Bio.

That the journey is only possible with a group of epic levels is a different matter. Perhaps a DM event could bypass that? but you only place yourself at an even bigger risk of permadeath strikes, because you are less capable of defending yourself. But like i mentioned earlier, i would love to see this play out, and hear how it went.

Anyhow, this is just something i jotted down quickly. Now it is time for coffee.

Absolution

[freekender]

First of all, I don't want to contribute to heat this up, because people who are here on the forums for some time ago know what usually happens when this fact/discusion/topic appears (one more time again).

As I stated in some other post not so much weeks ago, I think drow should be permitted to live on the surface. And I said from the perspective of a non-expert pen and paper player, but yes from the one of a the Forgotten Realms books devourer And there you can find drow that worship Eilitraee. More concretely, in the "War of the Spider Queen" saga (one I strongly recommend; again). What reflects better the reality of Faerûn that the stories written about it?

I agree with the KoS, but with one condition I think is very important and no so evident. The drows were a surface race long time ago and exile to the surface after a war with their elf "cousins". What do I mean with this? They should be rarely known on the surface. Only by the elves, who hate them, or someone with high lore. If this is met, the "argh a drow, kill it" it's OK. Then the char has the possibility of being killed on the PvP afterwards because of the lvl difference, but that is related to game mechanics and lvl cap and I will not enter on this non-related (I think) topic.

I put one example about this. In the event of the Zentil Keep from some weeks ago, a lot of people gathered there. And in the entrance to the keep itself, two drows were talking (I suppose in undercommon). In the time I was connected I did not see anyone saying "what are those dark-skinned creatures?". My char Mist included, a behaviour I realized about some time before I log out. Yes, we all thought "they are drows, they are mean and evil, for sure that they have some businesses with the Zents". But the question is: should our chars know that? Think about it.

[ctothep]

-snip-

Well even low lvl chars here can meet drow NPCs (hiltop ruins). Once they encountered those why should they not be able to recognise PC drows? They have fought drows before after all.

In regards to the zhent event you mention. I was actually playing one of the drows there and yes we were there to discuss business with the zhentarim. Although that encounter was kind of special in the sense that darkhold has its own laws and drows were protected as much as anyone else (as long as they dont do anything stupid ofc), otherwise my char would have never gone there in the first place.

Anyways, i think surface drows should be allowed, but application only and with the current drow surface PvP rules still in place. The surface is very dangerous for a drow and i think that should be reflected.

[DM_Absolution]

Curiosity and lust for new RP is what destroys that idea, but i agree with you that knowledge of the drow is limited. You can instead ask the question of how "common are Dark skinned elves?", and seeing one would raise an eyebrow, but hardly enough to instantly attack them.

Perhaps a DM could take it upon himself/herself to explore this, see how it turns out? As i mentioned in my previous post, permadeath strikes and the KoS will prevent this from becoming a new "trend", so i doubt it will become a problem. But let us face it, Eilistraeens and to some degree even Vhaeraun followers are hindered RP wise from these strict rules.

But how to execute such an event? players are far too curious. They see someone with a "drow" like name and their "spider senses" will be tingling.

This is an interesting discussion, but it does prevent me from properly getting work done. Sighs

Edit: I think it will need to be DM ran, at least in the beginning, otherwise there is a serious risk of it getting out of hand. And the idea of application is alright, but it should go even further, the character should have solid story that leads up to taking this step.

[grymhild]

I will post a longer reply later, but there are a few things that I think might important in implementing drow surface characters.

these are just some brainstorming ideas ...

1. Lore: players who wish to play a 'surface' drow should become familiar with the relevant lore
   
   we should decide as a server what our characters should and probably shouldn't know about both ud and surface drow societies and cultures, darthiiri (elves), what we know and don't know about the Crown Wars, the various faiths and dogmas of the light and dark Seldarine, and surface cultures, light sensitivity, etc
2. Application only: not meant to prevent people from playing, but more of a contract that we understand the lore, our reasons for wanting to play a surface drow, agreement to additional dm oversight to our behavior. also maybe only one active surface drow pc per player (?)
3. Areas: there should be some areas on the surface that are open to surface drow to live in and some to adventure in with level appropriate encounters.
4. NPCs: both Eilistraee and Vhaeruan should have small lore based communities led by dm-controlled npcs.
   
   guilds could be player run, but npc led (like kraak helzak, ck, and some other guilds)
   
   resources and npc merchants should be restricted in what they sell and buy.
5. dm support for surface drow metaplot

anyway... those are just some ideas.

[Mac]

"Areas: there should be some areas on the surface that are open to surface drow to live in and some to adventure in with level appropriate encounters."

Maybe a bit off topic but I think Roaring Shore (and maybe Soulbar) should be open to drow. Also I think certain classes should be KoS in roaring shore, If they make there allegiances known. (yes I'm looking at you paladins) As dangerous as it is for a drow to walk the streets of baldur's gate it should be equally dangerous for a righteous Doo Gooder to go strolling though roaring shore spouting off insults at the unsavory types around him.

[DM_Absolution]

1. Lore: players who wish to play a 'surface' drow should become familiar with the relevant lore
   
   we should decide as a server what our characters should and probably shouldn't know about both ud and surface drow societies and cultures, darthiiri (elves), what we know and don't know about the Crown Wars, the various faiths and dogmas of the light and dark Seldarine, and surface cultures, light sensitivity, etc

- I agree

[*]Application only: not meant to prevent people from playing, but more of a contract that we understand the lore, our reasons for wanting to play a surface drow, agreement to additional dm oversight to our behavior. also maybe only one active surface drow pc per player (?)

Are you talking about letting level 1 drow start on the surface? if so i am not sure how i feel about that.

[*]Areas: there should be some areas on the surface that are open to surface drow to live in and some to adventure in with level appropriate encounters.

- This is a lot of work and i believe we should rather focus on expanding the UD for now. That the surface drow has a base of operations is good, though not immediately. It will take time to locate a place for that, time to build etc.

Edit: If you ment that we should create new areas for this, then my comment stands.

[*]NPCs: both Eilistraee and Vhaeruan should have small lore based communities led by dm-controlled npcs.

guilds could be player run, but npc led (like kraak helzak, ck, and some other guilds)

resources and npc merchants should be restricted in what they sell and buy.

- I still think this is something for the future, IF this project runs as intended.

[*]dm support for surface drow metaplot [/list]

- I agree, but i think it should be more ran as a guild, with possible options to be included in some other larger plot. (Main UD plot perhaps?)

[ctothep]

There could be a DM ran Eilistraeen or Vhaeraun guild with a guildhall that connects to the surface aswell as the UD. That way the "surface" drows can take advantage of the UD infrastructure aswell as go after their rp on the surface. If you want to play a "surface" drow you have to join the faction and write an application to the DM who runs the guild.

What really has to be avoided though is drow running around in civilised areas not giving a crap that they are pretty much surrounded by death. Even if you wear a mask it is really not very wise to run around in nashkel or beregost. Not wearing a mask and entering the FAI, buying and selling at the auctioneer even less so.

So how do you avoid it? It's a hard question.

In my opinion you really have to enforce permadeaths for drows on the surface to really reflect how the surface world reacts to drow. Like If you enter Nashkel with your drow than there have to be very harsh consequences (permadeath most likely, not a "permastrike" but permadeath). Or if you run into another player on the surface and he decides to kill you then permadeath should be encouraged aswell.

Once you really enforce such harsh consequences how do you avoid drama that just naturally comes with it? Something like that could really cause massive headaches for the staff...

But let's go a step further and say that there is a small group of eilistraee worshipping drow who etablished a guild base on the surface. All very great rpers portraying the "surface" drow very believable and somehow managed to survive the cruel surface world. They have even managed to convince a few dudes that they are not evil drows and actually very kind, loving and moon-kissing people. Through their new found friends they even convince more people that they are oh so kind and soon they are friends with half of the server chilling around at the FAI handing out food and drink to anyone who comes along. Then if a new char runs over them and wants to kill them because hey all drows are evil better kill them without asking questions, some surface drow buddy steps forward and tells him that this drow is such a nice dude and if you raise your weapons against this drow he will smite evil you to the fugue plane.

Perhaps it's just me but i would really like to avoid something like that...

In the end it just has to be done very well and with very strict rules, otherwise the setting might quickly become neglected.

[DM_Absolution]

In the end it just has to be done very well and with very strict rules, otherwise the setting might quickly become neglected.

Agreed, it has to be controlled, otherwise DM's will end up with a lot of complaints from good drow and surfacers who have ended up in similar situations as you mentioned.

The problem i have with this surface idea is that i don't think it should become too large, it would not be realistic to have more than 5-7 active drow in this guild at any given time, if even that many. I think we should limit the amount of players that can join these guilds. Understandably this will cause some frustration for those players who want to join but can't, but i can't see any other way, we simply cannot have too many drow on the surface.