Nerf Bear Warrior

[seawied]

I've been playing with this class quite a bit the last few weeks and I am finding that it is one of my favorite classes to play. That said, there is something significantly wrong with this prestige class: it's way too strong at early levels.

At level 8, I was tanking Xvarts. At 12, with a mage casting stoneskin on me I was handling giants. Also, without any assistance, I was soloing wyverns.


I suggest the following to even this class out with the rest.

Nerf Black Bear shape.
Currently, black bear gives to following bonuses:
Black Bear: +8 strength, +4 constitution, +2 dexterity, +2 natural armor, +2 Will saves, and Fast Regen +3 . All claw and bite attacks have +2 enchantment. 20 base AC.

I suggest nerfing it to this:
Black Bear: +7 Strength, +4 Constitution, +0 Dexterity, +2 Natural Armor, +0 Will saves, and Fast Regen +1. All Claw and bite attacks hav +2 enchantment. 20 base AC.

Still very powerful, but you won't be handling the Xvart village at 8 with this bear. The class is, as it should be, comparable to other classes.

Currently, the Brown Bear gives this:
Brown Bear: +10 strength, +8 constitution, +2 dexterity, +5 natural armor, +2 Will saves and Fast Regen +4. All claw and bite attacks have +3 enchantment. 25 base AC.

I recommend nerfing it to this:
Brown Bear: +8 strength, +6 constitution, +2 dexterity, +5 natural armor, +1 Will saves and Fast Regen +4. All claw and bite attacks have +3 enchantment. 25 base AC.

Again, still very deadly, and better than the standard rage, but not overpowering.

Dire bear should remain unchanged.

[grunts]

It balances out greatly in epic levels. Crossbow sniper is the same way, though they gain much more power then bear warrior does.

[PiaMango]

The bear warrior is really limited by its uses of rage. Its power certainly peaks a lot sooner than most build but in epics you might get a tad frustrated as the rest timer increases greatly.

[matelener]

The biggest offset to a bear warrior is the inability to use any consumables / umd while shapeshifted. So, if you happen to be surrounded then your only option is to fight to the death. As you have noticed though, you powerspike early but for a quite short duration, it gets longer with more feats / barbarian levels but so does the rest timer. Also, the form you get at Bear Warrior 10 (the earliest you can get it is 17th level: 7 barb / 10 bear warrior) is your final form that you can't really improve by much. It will obliterate the content at level 17 but the same form has to be able to PvE at level 25 or 30 too. You can gain more offense by simply leveling and raising your BAB, defense though not so much (EDR is the best in this regard, as for AC - there are very few options to increase it).

As a side note, I agree with the sentiment that standard barbarians are much weaker than Bear Warriors but instead of nerfing the Bear Warrior class, I would buff standard barbarians.

[seawied]

Also I'm just going to add, any manner of legitimate nerfs are unlikely to happen in this life with a server as established as this one on something that people have already created characters for.

At max level, there would be no negative effect on the long timers' characters.

Even then, a barbarian PrC is far from being in the list of the classes that need nerfing in terms of priority...

Fair enough.

[Aelcar]

We knew this in QC. We voted for it.

It's a situation we want. Bear Warrior is definitely not a balance concern at epic levels (maybe it's on the weak side, even): we decided to encourage players to play the class making it easier to level than it was before.

Said this, do you know how many Bear Warriors we have on the server? Very...VERY few.

Also, this would not be a legitimate nerf by any stretch of imagination.

[seawied]

I haven't hit the epic levels yet with this character, but I do see your point.

Does Bear Warrior's form work with unarmed bonuses from fist of the forest?