Allow players seat in the Conclave (Discussion)

[DM_Absolution]

i do believe this has been brought up before, but perhaps it should be discussed again? I can clearly see benefits from allowing this;

1) Players will get something to strive for (Mages and Clerics (instead of Bel'iira)
2) Will invigorate the RP surrounding the schools
3) Will be easy for DM's to create events, as the political game surrounding the schools and conclave will be a breeding ground for conflict.
4) This will have a domino effect on the other guilds down there as well, Bregan and other mercenary guilds will be attractive to these political players.

Other DM's will of course play the roles of some of the seats on the council, but several will be taken by players.

If a player stops playing a character that has a seat in the Conclave, we can arrange for a assassination or similar incident (DM event or forum RP/open)

Meetings for the conclave could be a monthly thing, and with the occational events in between, depending on what is happening behind the scenes.

Thoughts?

Absolution

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Helvi'viir has a deep interest in this, as the Qu'ellar is predominantly arcane.

A limit of character involvement from Qu'ellars might be a single representative, that should help maintain activity for the seat being occupied rather than an entire Conclave operated by a single house.

[mrm3ntalist]

Thoughts?

That's the best suggestion regarding the UD that I heard in a very long time!

That is very interesting

[thids]

That would be a good idea, though I would make assassination rules for those that do take a seat on the conclave muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch more lax. At the same time make perma-strike rules more strict with those on the council.


On the other hand, what happens when UD goes down to ~4-5 active players at the most as it often does at times? How do those active remaining players make an impact on the world and make things move in the city of Sshamath with half the conclave missing? Also, what would go under the definition "if someone stops playing a character"? What if someone just stops being fully active, but logs on from time to time? I know I'm nitpicking here, but these are all things that need to be taken into careful consideration.

[ValerieJean]

IMO, if they are not active perhaps for a certain period of time they should be replaced? Idk what that grace period might be but if that were to not be possible then perhaps for those who are active only have their "votes" count. I would suggest also on the off chance some ppl just cannot log on to have it accessible via the forums. So they can at least post if they are unable to get on the server.

[DM_Absolution]

That would be a good idea, though I would make assassination rules for those that do take a seat on the conclave muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch more lax. At the same time make perma-strike rules more strict with those on the council.


On the other hand, what happens when UD goes down to ~4-5 active players at the most as it often does at times? How do those active remaining players make an impact on the world and make things move in the city of Sshamath with half the conclave missing? Also, what would go under the definition "if someone stops playing a character"? What if someone just stops being fully active, but logs on from time to time? I know I'm nitpicking here, but these are all things that need to be taken into careful consideration.

1) If UD goes through a rough patch, then the DM team will contact those players that has a seat on the conclave, and it will be sorted out, and if they do not respond then it will be sorted by the DM team, in agreement with parties involved.

2) If someone is only partially active then i believe we can come to an agreement? i assume that most players are understanding when it comes to the RP scene? perhaps they would step down and allow someone else to take their spot.

If this were to be allowed, then the rules would have to be made, which is why i wanted to start this discussion

[Tsidkenu]

I agree that some greater player interaction on/with the Conclave would spice things up in the UD. However I think the seats should remain as they are in Lore:

1. Master of Abjuration Masoj Dhuunyl (NE male drow)
2. Master of Conjuration and Summoning Urlryn Khalazza (CE male drow)
3. Master of Divination Seldszar Elpragh (LE male drow)
4. Master of Enchantment and Charm Malaggar Xarann (CE male drow)
5. Master of Illusion and Phantasm Felyndiira T'orgh (CE female drow)
6. Master of Invocation and Evocation Krondorl Waeglossz (CE male drow)
7. Master of Necromancy Tsabrak of the Blood (CE male drow vampire)
8. Master of Transmutation Shurdriira Helviiryn (CE female drow)
9. Master of Mages Guldor Zauviir (CE male drow, the School of Mages)
10. Master of Elemental Magic Antalab of the Shaking Stones (NE male drow)
11. House S'shamath, Ilharess Bel'iira Sshamath (CE female drow)
12. The Web of the Spider Queen, Ilharess Laele Zauvirr (CE female drow)
13. Master of the 7th Circle, Ilphryssin Arkentlar (N male drow)

Only the 13th seat seems to be a PC addition due to past roleplay. Given the 7th Circle's considerable guild inactivity (from what I've seen?), I think it would be fair for this seat to become up for grabs if the NPC currently filling it could be 'removed'.

DMs might need to allow for the usual political infighting within the other magic schools and potential assassination of school heads/Conclave representatives to be replaced by another PC/NPC.

Addition of new seats should not come without significant, long-term RP investment, not to mention political backlash by those already trying to consolidate the power they currently hold.

[Edit] The least Lore-breaking new addition to the above list would be the School of Shadow Magic, as they have historically been trying for some time to establish themselves as altogether different from the school of Illusion and Phantasm and gain their own token of power.

[thids]

There is no need to replace existing lore based council members. 3 seats have already been added, with 2 Lolthite seats being heavily against canon lore of the city, would adding a few more seats really be that much of an issue?

[Tsidkenu]

It would be an issue for the existing council members: the addition of new seats diminishes their power.

Only the Conclave can officially sanction new schools of wizardry, a form of recognition it is loath to grant because doing so would diminish the power of existing schools. Originally Sshamath's Conclave sanctioned only eight schools: Abjuration, Conjuration and Summoning, Divination, Enchantment and Charm, Illusion and Phantasm, Invocation and Evocation, Necromancy, and Transmutation. The first addition was the school of Mages, for wizards whose research could not be clearly assigned to any one school. In the centuries since, the school of Mages has been severely hamstrung by those who fear it could easily grow to dominate.

The tenth and most recent addition to the Conclave is the school of Elemental Magic, a four-way factionalized institution admitted mainly to undermine the power of the growing number of elementalists and to check the increasing influence of the school of Invocation and Evocation. The masters of elemental magic had hoped to be admitted as four separate schools--Air, Earth, Fire, Water--but the Conclave's maneuvering has locked them in a power struggle within the school of Elemental Magic, thus weakening them in the Conclave.
Proponents of other schools continue to seek sanction, but are largely stymied by the established schools.

Although that is no reason to prevent further additions altogether, I'm just saying that this is the political background for future inclusions on the Conclave.

I am not fully aware of the Server-side lore of UD and the events that lead up to the inclusion of the additional seats of the Temple of Lolth and the 7th Circle, but I suspect the illithilich plot line had something to do with it?

[DM_Absolution]

Which is why the current members can be replaced in a manner fitting drow society. i am against adding more seats, as it is plenty already due to the late additions.

[ValerieJean]

But is there not an inactivity of UD now and again so having it gender specific would be unfortunate as they may not all be filled or if they are it's with alts who rarely are around.

[thids]

The issue with removing existing NPC's is, they are fairly powerful NPC's. Chances of a PC, or group of PC's succeeding in assassinating them are slim to none. And failure probably brings perma-strike penalties.

I mean, theoretically you can try to assassinate dukes in BG if you really want to and put your RP towards that. DM's might even accommodate your attempt if you worked hard on it and lay the groundworks, but your chances of succeeding are still slim to none. At least that's how I always understood powerful and famous, lore-based NPC's worked on the server, in regards to their potential assassination at the hands of PC's.

[DM_Absolution]

The issue with removing existing NPC's is, they are fairly powerful NPC's. Chances of a PC, or group of PC's succeeding in assassinating them are slim to none. And failure probably brings perma-strike penalties.

I mean, theoretically you can try to assassinate dukes in BG if you really want to and put your RP towards that. DM's might even accommodate your attempt if you worked hard on it and lay the groundworks, but your chances of succeeding are still slim to none. At least that's how I always understood powerful and famous, lore-based NPC's worked on the server, in regards to their potential assassination at the hands of PC's.

Really? i disagree. I belive these spots can be granted over time and through assassination or other means, and it would be possible. We have powerful players wandering the UD, and many of them with big pockets and loyalities in various factions.

[Tsidkenu]

Yes, a rather good observation there Thids.

That basically leaves the lower three seats as the ones 'up-for-grabs', and quite frankly, they are the most suitable three for that

Now, how to displace the founding Qu'ellar. . .

[thids]

The issue with removing existing NPC's is, they are fairly powerful NPC's. Chances of a PC, or group of PC's succeeding in assassinating them are slim to none. And failure probably brings perma-strike penalties.

I mean, theoretically you can try to assassinate dukes in BG if you really want to and put your RP towards that. DM's might even accommodate your attempt if you worked hard on it and lay the groundworks, but your chances of succeeding are still slim to none. At least that's how I always understood powerful and famous, lore-based NPC's worked on the server, in regards to their potential assassination at the hands of PC's.

Really? i disagree. I belive these spots can be granted over time and through assassination or other means, and it would be possible. We have powerful players wandering the UD, and many of them with big pockets and loyalities in various factions.

Well as I said, that's just the "feel" I received from the server since I started playing here. I personally don't know of anyone making an attempt on one of the big name NPC's lives over the last 2 years, I just figured that was the reason.