Comic: The Economic system and why Karond is so rich...

[mrm3ntalist]

What i mean is that especially in this game, some players can play 1hour per day, others 6. Those that play the longest hours, will get the more benefits from the game.

What are your thoughts on some elements, crafting for example, being moved from instantaneous actions to being set to a future time depending on skill?

I assume my thoughts regarding the hours one can play and crafting as an example? Those that can play more, can get their skill higher faster and get the crafting components and gold faster and in more quantity.

Unless an AI takes over from the players while they are logged off, playtimes will always be an issue in every online game

[Xanfyrst]

Also, if you want a gold sink that would give money some of its worth back, add flavour items. Items that have no mechanical benefits, but would add something unique to those wielding them. Fx. Something lots of people have wanted for ages are summon pet tokens. Another is visual effects on weapons, if it makes sense of course.

[pwdcrk1]

I'm surprised the impact of muling (by this I do not mean having a storage character, but rather allowing the movement of wealth and items between PCs) is not being discussed in this thread:

.......

Yet in my mind it would probably be the single thing that did the most to control inflation and promote the flow of items between PCs.

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lol telepathy !!! i just sent a message with this exact topic in mind !!!


by the way I'm totally agree with you

[mrieder79]

In addition to epic shops we could also add an enchanter. This could be an NPC that would add various enchantments/VFX to weapons for very high prices. I'm thinking millions here. That would be quite a gold sink.

for example:

EB+3: 1 million
EB+4: 2 million
d4 elemental damage: 2 million
d4 physical damage (slashing/piercing/bludgeoning): 3 million
+1 vamp regen: 1 million
+2 vamp regen: 3 million
+3 vamp regen: 5 million
VFX: 500,000

onhit properties:
DC14: 500,000
DC16: 700,000
DC18: 1.25 million

Keen: 500,000

you get the picture.

Maybe these prices are too high, maybe too low. Who knows. But something like this would definitely give people a reason to hang onto their gold to build or enhance their favorite weapon.

This would not replace epic shops, but could be added as a compliment. The JEGS module already has something similar (although the prices would have to be drastically changed)

The same could be done for armors, boots, miscellaneous items, etc...

It would, of course, be a large undertaking to balance and implement.

[grymhild]

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Economic_system

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/mudflation

http://www.alteraeon.com/articles/gold- ... -mmos.html

[MistyMountain]

I play this game primarily because its d&d and because the building system is very interesting. I tend to trade opposite to the hostile environment- offering more for less. I've given away +4 ac items for nothing. I think of this game as something more like knitting; (and I tend to play while my wife knits) its very repetitive but you get to build something and watch the design progress. Karond clearly has a different reason for playing. Personally, I think what he does is cool and smart, but what would he do if we added epic vendors? Would we lose the players that want to have the best clothes on? I don't mind them being around.

edit: Karond has 40 million? If we added some items that were worth 40 million to a vendor there would still be a few players with the best clothes on

[Mendoza]

In addition to epic shops we could also add an enchanter. This could be an NPC that would add various enchantments/VFX to weapons for very high prices.

Never even considered this, but I like it a lot! This, along with an epic merchant would be an excellent way to balance the playing field.

Everyone should have access to buy all items found in the loot table. DM items should be the same items, but with RP worth, meaning that its specialness comes from what it may represent in-character as well has have abilities only usable with DM allowance and supervision.

I like this as well. If every player has access to buy all items on the loot table it completely eliminates people being able to cry favoritism or that the playing field is unfair (which it currently is). I think it would be extremely difficult to implement which is why I like rieder's idea of an enchanter even more. Rather than have 1000 merchants to cover the entire loot table you have one enchanter NPC that allows you to create any item present in the loot table through enchanting.

Fact is long time players (4+ years) already hold ALL the cards. They have all the gold, all the grandfathered items/dm granted items, and all the connections with other long time players that have the stuff they don't have. I don't see why those who've played for many years should be granted additional benefits over new players interested in the server (there are few enough it would be counter productive to put further restrictions on them that long time players don't have).

This is what any new player realizes rather quickly when they begin playing on this server, and I think the dev team needs to address it sooner rather than later if the server is going to continue to prosper.

[grymhild]

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/ ... erminology

Monty Haul

A derogatory term for a campaign or GM that gives out excessive amounts of loot. Named after popular 1960's "Let's Make A Deal" game show host Monty Hall.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?336 ... all-Gaming


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24DjEG1qckE

http://inkwellideas.com/advice/solving- ... l-problem/

[Sylvver]

I'd like to chime in with some experience from other servers.
Crafting systems, in general, are implemented in a manner where they rely on collected materials, often requiring very rare materials to craft the best gear. This does not really help the gold situation in any meaningful way (it can provide another gold sink, but it will never standardize the value of gold or certain items). The end result is that people hoard the rare crafting components and only trade them for ones of equal rarity - the same as the item situation here. At best it would create another rare item that is just less specialized and more desirable by a larger assortment of players.
A crafting system could be implemented that relies solely on gold, or where all materials are available to purchase from NPCs, but this is essentially the same as just putting items in shops (albeit it involves more PC interaction and gives more customizability).

What does seem to help facilitate trade and get gold out of the system is exactly these extra shops, even more so when they are not permanently there. To elaborate - DMs can run their own auctions, they can sell items in bazaar type events etc. In this manner it is gold and only gold that can be used to make the trade for these desirable items, and since you never know when such a 'shop' or auction house sale would come about, nor what it would contain, you have an incentive to keep alot of gold on you.
Just to clarify - these items dont need to be all top of the line event quality gear, just of equal value to say.. the shops Karond did make.

[AC81]

I think mreider nailed it. Get a merchant permanently in game that charges huge amounts for weapon and armour upgrade. I can see that being addictive...

[Shad]

Could use rare gems for some upgrades to. To made it more diverse. That in addition to what been said. And gems are gold-convertable.

[mrieder79]

That is a good idea. Maybe the gems could also be used to bypass the cost of some of the upgrades.

Maybe we could make a special gem merchant without the 1200 or so GP cap who actually gives a decent price for gems, say, several hundred thousand to a million or so, or whatever the miserly QC team deems approrpiate. :p

(just kidding QC team, you guys do a great job of keeping the server balanced)

[mrieder79]

I'd like to chime in with some experience from other servers.
Crafting systems, in general, are implemented in a manner where they rely on collected materials, often requiring very rare materials to craft the best gear. This does not really help the gold situation in any meaningful way (it can provide another gold sink, but it will never standardize the value of gold or certain items). The end result is that people hoard the rare crafting components and only trade them for ones of equal rarity - the same as the item situation here. At best it would create another rare item that is just less specialized and more desirable by a larger assortment of players.
A crafting system could be implemented that relies solely on gold, or where all materials are available to purchase from NPCs, but this is essentially the same as just putting items in shops (albeit it involves more PC interaction and gives more customizability).

What does seem to help facilitate trade and get gold out of the system is exactly these extra shops, even more so when they are not permanently there. To elaborate - DMs can run their own auctions, they can sell items in bazaar type events etc. In this manner it is gold and only gold that can be used to make the trade for these desirable items, and since you never know when such a 'shop' or auction house sale would come about, nor what it would contain, you have an incentive to keep alot of gold on you.
Just to clarify - these items dont need to be all top of the line event quality gear, just of equal value to say.. the shops Karond did make.

This is also a fantastic idea, and would presever the aura of excitement and mystery aroud getting new and unique items. Reminds me of the crafting event several months back.

[chad878262]

Some very good ideas sprouting from this thread. Hopefully the DM's are discussing some of the auction ideas. I know continual discussions are occurring on the QC forums around crafting.

[Ithilan]

I dont think the DM vendor solution is viable however, since there is always a massive difference in DM activity say in the european "main" hours and the American main "hours", I can imagine people outside of these two regions see even less.

That would again catter to specific crowds, or like the quest experience topic debate indicates, be really unfavorable for those players that can only invest up to half an hour a day, at max.

I do like the idea about a crafting system and I do like the idea that it should be a massive gold requirement to apply it, but I also think the material component element is key, I know that it wont make gold the primary currency but it will go a long way.

What I dont agree to is just opening up for crafting of practically any item within the servers limitations. I think its an essential part in these kind of games that grand adventures and fighting some horrific dragon in its lair, should be more rewarding than crafting. And the implementation of a crafting system such as the one suggested above, will not change the distribution of wealth amongst the players. In fact I suspect Karond will kill said NPC, put on a wig and take over his buisness

Jokes aside, I dont know what the proper solution is, or if one is needed in honesty. I just think the crafting system could be very interesting, I just dont think it should give access to crafting the very best the module has to offer. But id really like to see more vendors with specialized goods such as the one in the gate district has, in average every character can use an item from his stall and rarely ever can anyone use two of them (in longer terms) so I think its a good balanced and variable stock, id love to see more of that kind.