CHA-based builds

[metaquad4]

Here is another kind, I recently tried.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?227442

Seems alright to me. More of a split between CHA and STR, but, it can hold its own (and I still consider it CHA-Based).

[Zanniej]

The issue I had/have, is that all melee type CHA-based builds seem to be EDM-builds. So I was kinda wondering what other types there were, apart from CHA-based casters (sorcerers) and EDM builds.

But you guys made an excellent effort to illustrate it for me though. Thanks a lot!

[chad878262]

Over in the other thread(if you can sift through all of the arguing) Aelcar and a few others have examples of paladin with great smiting instead of edm. Not as much staying / grinding power, but gets 7 smites per day to level the BBEG(Boss). So basically you get 13-16 strength and heavily focus on charisma. You still get divine might and shield, but leave strength lower and max charisma for some devastating smite evil attacks.

[Steve]

The issue I had/have, is that all melee type CHA-based builds seem to be EDM-builds. So I was kinda wondering what other types there were, ...

CHA isn't STR, so you have to consider just how melee a CHA build can get. Even EDM builds have less damage that a Weapon Master / FB.

There are just a small few PCs and PrCs that are about high CHA for use in special feats. Man-at-Arms, Ghost Face Killer, Feint builds in general.

Maybe I'm wrong, but CHA-based builds seem to be more about Charisma and its characteristics, than melee. Even with Sorcerer, the idea is that this type of mage manipulates the Weave by force of will—or ancient dragon blood—rather than intellectually understanding the Weave.

[Zanniej]

The issue I had/have, is that all melee type CHA-based builds seem to be EDM-builds. So I was kinda wondering what other types there were, ...

Maybe I'm wrong, but CHA-based builds seem to be more about Charisma and its characteristics, than melee. Even with Sorcerer, the idea is that this type of mage manipulates the Weave by force of will—or ancient dragon blood—rather than intellectually understanding the Weave.

Oh come on Steve, you're always bugging me about the mechanical part of the game, at which I suck. So now I'm trying to learn about the mechanical part of the game, then you come with the RP aspect of it!? We can start a separate discussion about how to RP such a build
For now I'm just wondering about viable CHA-based builds.

CHA isn't STR, so you have to consider just how melee a CHA build can get. Even EDM builds have less damage that a Weapon Master / FB.

There are just a small few PCs and PrCs that are about high CHA for use in special feats. Man-at-Arms, Ghost Face Killer, Feint builds in general.

But, for about 7 times a day, a paladin could use his CHA for AB as well right? (if I read the description of smite correctly)
How would one survive when his smites are used for the day?

[mrm3ntalist]

But, for about 7 times a day, a paladin could use his CHA for AB as well right? (if I read the description of smite correctly)
How would one survive when his smites are used for the day?

Even with 16STR a paladin 30 would have

AB= 30BAB +3STR +5GMW +1Aid +1Bless +4StrBuffs(Enhancement and sacred) = 44AB. It can be 45/46 with weapon focus and or Epic prowess. That's 3AB less compared to EDM pallies.

Damage wise a CHA paladins only loses 3 damage from STR and 5-8 divine damage compared to EDM paladins. Even though he doesn't have EDM (20 Damage for 20 rounds ) he still gets divine might with 12+damage for 12+rounds(Assuming 26CHA +8 buffs ). Because of the Higher CHA he gets a couple more Turn Undead uses as well.

AC is better since Divine Shield now lasts a couple of rounds longer for 2+ extra AC

He is also a better turner.

So even if the smites are used for the day, the AB is still alright with decent damage.

[Aelcar]

But, for about 7 times a day, a paladin could use his CHA for AB as well right? (if I read the description of smite correctly)
How would one survive when his smites are used for the day?

Those Smites do MUCH MORE than adding CHA to AB, but let's answer your question, which is more important.

A character with Turn Undead (like Paladin) gets 3 uses of Turn Undead + CHA bonus (not only BASE, even BUFFED!).

These Turn Undead attempts are used for extra damage (+CHA bonus to dmg for +CHA bonus rounds) and extra defenses (+CHA bonus to AC for +CHA rounds). Paladins obtain +8 CHA stacking via spells, by the way.

With spells, Paladin immunities, Lay on Hands emergency instant heal and +CHA to saves, Paladins have no problem in defense or the dmg department. Their AB is also fine when buffed (so for 30 min for a lvl 30 Paladin), with GMW, Bless, Aid and +8 STR stacking.

Smites are icing on the cake. You can go around with a Great Smiter barely even needing them.

Paladin is a very good class, as I said a few times. Not the strongest, or overpowered, but definitely very good.

EDIT: Mentalist beats me to it, and explains it even better...

[thids]

Here are some examples:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?121093
http://nwn2db.com/build/?147931
http://nwn2db.com/build/?188168

The difficult part of leveling a great smiter likely comes in the levels before you get your entire spellbook.

It can be done on a human as well, and you can fiddle with the attributes more if you want. I don't remember how the spellcasting progression goes for paladins, so someone else could consult you better on what the good points are at which to start your wisdom. Your main goal when building a great smiter is hitting 25CHA as soon as possible, then using the rest of your epic feats on great smites. For pre-epic feats your primary goal is getting Divine Shield. With such high charisma Divine Might is a reliable and decent source of damage, so you should aim for that as well. After that, it's whatever you want in pre-epics really, getting AC feats is probably a good idea though (LoH, HAO and GHAO). While Blind Fight is completely optional when it comes to most melee builds, you should really be getting it on a great smiter. You do NOT want to be missing smites due to concealment.

[R0ninknight]

Leon Hart is a charisma-based character.

Paladin 4 / Sorceror 6 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Dragonslayer 10

So far so good but I'm new.

[Ivan38Rus]

Cha-focused paladin smiter could be dangerous