Holy Sword and Bless Weapon wands

[Blackman D]

well the part about holy/lawful sword and blessed weapon isnt particularly up to debate anymore, they are being fixed, i believe it was attempted before the holidays but broke and had to be pulled out

either way, different topic

as far as the wand issue, i can go either way, i mean i do have a holy sword wand myself, but ive never gotten to use it tho its still not gonna hurt my feelings if they cant be crafted anymore

i dont mind if they can go on wands but they probably should be restricted to paladins only, making it LG only i think was a bad band-aid really

even if a scripted restricted was added to the spell that required paladin levels tho, im not sure how much that would hold up against those that only have 3-4 level dips for EDM

anyway if this keeps goin back and forth it may just end up needing a DM ruling, its not like there is a lot to say about it without side tracking

i do think tho that the lore argument has a bit more weight tho, especially given there is actually nothing special about flame weapon, its a druid only spell because the rules changed from 3.0 to 3.5, in 3.0 it was an arcane spell used by sorc/wiz, flame arrow also had its rules changed - 3.5 only has one version of it and 3.0 it could be used as it is now as well as on a normal quiver of arrows to make them all deal fire damage

im sure paladins are at least a bit more consistent

[Blackman D]

But, if we could, I wouldn't object to changing costs in crafting said wands. I would be in full favor of a new wand crafting system (which could solve this issue and bring more variety and balance to game play), but I regress.

thats hardly needed

wand, scroll and potion crafting is fine given its base rules, if you want to change the price you would only need to change the spell level to make it cheaper or even more expensive than 45,000g for holy sword

more options maybe, but new isnt needed

[Lockonnow]

many of you get off ths topic

[MopKnight]

Yes, that would be the usual way to balance things. Except that hurts the class which should be using the spell and which is near perfectly balanced by having the spell its current form. This is an easy solution which doesn't really hurt anyone's build and doesn't require a major class overhaul.

"Should be using the spell" implies that magic is exclusive in some way. If only the classes that get the spell should be using them, why not get rid of wands altogether?

And fixing the low hanging fruit just leaves a mess that has to be cleaned up later. If it is worth fixing at all, it is worth doing it right.

Okay let's be clear on this.

2d6 magical damage to undead is fine, in the hands of a paladin. Why? Paladins have incredibly limited spell slots, require no less than 3 separate stats to be effective as spell casters and have no group buffs of note beyond 1d4 holy to a group, at level 15+.

Fixing it right is preventing a powerful, effectively class specific buff in line with lore from being freely castable by anyone with a few thousand gold sitting around. If you start nerfing paladin spells then I think a lot of other 'powerful' builds are vastly overdue their nerfing.

Think carefully before opening that Pandoras box.

While the discussion is effectively over, I wanted my piece on this.

[Rasael]

No one's interested in nerfing Paladins. They're going to get some love either this weekend, or next weekend.

[Lockonnow]

well paladin have some spell there is not in the normel paladin spell book

[thids]

Its a tradeoff which explains why the damage types are all set to divine now. Originally you would have stacking bless and holy or lawful weapons. Now they dont stack, but you get crit bonus for the one thats active.

So basically a holy sword wand is now 17 minutes of +5 2d6 crittable divine damage? :)))


Come on now, the solution to this is quite simple if we think about it objectively and critically. That's not possible if people keep the "if I can't have it, no one will" mentality.


@lockonnow
There are three spells on bg that don't belong in paladin's spellbook, those are: Aid, Owls and Freedom of Movement. This is not a topic about the paladin's spellbook though, this is a topic about wands.

[Rasael]

So basically a holy sword wand is.... +5 2d6 crittable divine damage? ))


Come on now, the solution to this is quite simple if we think about it objectively and critically. That's not possible if people keep the "if I can't have it, no one will" mentality.

Its also dispellable by players and NPCs.

We'll do a balance review after 'the' update this weekend, or next weekend. Depending on the schedule and how the update goes.

[Calodan]

So what is the DC on that dispel then? Can a scroll bought by anybody with UMD dispel it then? If so then there is indeed a fair trade off to my mind since Holy Sword wands IF you can use them are not cheap one dang bit. ALso every boss IG which you would use this wand against uses a mords and usually multiple dispels so that would for sure be a fair trade off there too.

[Bobthehero]

Just get rid of UMD all together.

Please do, I always cringe when someone asks for build help regarding a martial class and half the time they'll be told to put points in UMD.