Guidlines for Spells: Augury and Omen of Peril

[Steve]

Hello,
Can some guidelines be generated on how these spells are to be used by PCs that have them as part of their Spellbook?

Augury

Omen of Peril

On the BGTSCC wiki, there are no "Gameplay Notes" with which to grasp how these spells can be useful outside of a DM Event (and/or whether there IS any use for them outside a DM Event). And, if that is their greatest purpose/use, then how does the DM Team wish the Players to understand and respect their use, and they possible outcomes that are divined?

[[DM] Seren]

Omen of Peril works by comparing your current party' highest strength character with the Dr of the area.

[DM Golem]

With Augury you get an answer given to you if cast outside of an event; unfortunately that is of course pretty random, but it can be treated IC'ly and RP'ed around. I'm not sure why a guideline is needed there.

Inside events, or for example if submitted as forum RP, the DMs would mediate answers. These spells are, in PnP, tools for DMs to give the party a nudge, after all.

[Rhifox]

I was in a group with someone. We came to a fork in the road. He asked which way to go. I used Omen of Peril facing one of the directions. It came up as very dangerous. We went the other way.

Outside of DMs, it's a random dice roll that you can use for fluff RP.

[Steve]

With Augury you get an answer given to you if cast outside of an event; unfortunately that is of course pretty random, but it can be treated IC'ly and RP'ed around. I'm not sure why a guideline is needed there.

Augury: "...receiving a meaningful reply...The augury can see into the future only about half an hour,..."

It seems to me, at least, that it borderlines making a Skill Check or Rolling Skills, and whether or not other PCs/Players need to "uphold" the outcome. Because, as pointed out, it is random and just the computer doing math.

Essentially, it means nothing outside of an Event, unless Players simply wish to "go along" with the outcome, even if that is outside IC—or worse, OOC— better judgement.

Example:

Cleric of CL 20 casts Augury, asking if "Will I die if I open this dungeon door?"

Snarky rogue hears this divination, and says: "Bah...your God does not listen to you."

Cleric receives answer of "Weal." Responds to Rogue: "I have heard Her voice...I shall survive...let us open this door..."

Cleric and Rogue open door...and Balor kills them both.

It is a quick and dirty example, but my point is: is Augury meant to be a meaningful (reliable or true) vision of the future—and that should be upheld by others, IC, that witness it—depending on the outcome of the DC, or is it simply a vehicle to support some RP, but is far-beyond-fantasy or ridiculous to actually listen to the answer...UNLESS a DM is actually present? Because unless a DM IS present, there is not way to mechanically change the situation.

And then, when a DM is present...is that outcome truly true? As in, both Player and DM should uphold the DC outcome?

[DM Golem]

With Augury you get an answer given to you if cast outside of an event; unfortunately that is of course pretty random, but it can be treated IC'ly and RP'ed around. I'm not sure why a guideline is needed there.

Augury: "...receiving a meaningful reply...The augury can see into the future only about half an hour,..."

It seems to me, at least, that it borderlines making a Skill Check or Rolling Skills, and whether or not other PCs/Players need to "uphold" the outcome. Because, as pointed out, it is random and just the computer doing math.

Essentially, it means nothing outside of an Event, unless Players simply wish to "go along" with the outcome, even if that is outside IC—or worse, OOC— better judgement.

Example:

Cleric of CL 20 casts Augury, asking if "Will I die if I open this dungeon door?"

Snarky rogue hears this divination, and says: "Bah...your God does not listen to you."

Cleric receives answer of "Weal." Responds to Rogue: "I have heard Her voice...I shall survive...let us open this door..."

Cleric and Rogue open door...and Balor kills them both.

It is a quick and dirty example, but my point is: is Augury meant to be a meaningful (reliable or true) vision of the future—and that should be upheld by others, IC, that witness it—depending on the outcome of the DC, or is it simply a vehicle to support some RP, but is far-beyond-fantasy or ridiculous to actually listen to the answer...UNLESS a DM is actually present? Because unless a DM IS present, there is not way to mechanically change the situation.

And then, when a DM is present...is that outcome truly true? As in, both Player and DM should uphold the DC outcome?

Rhifox, speaking of Omen of Peril, pretty much said what applies to Augury outside of events.

Its just a random diceroll that can be used for fluff RP.

The point is the gods are inscrutable...using your example, perhaps opening the door distracted the Balor at a critical moment, frustrating its goals to the advantage of the god who sent the Omen. It was Weal. Just not for those characters! I appreciate that can be awkward, hence its limit is fluff RP for clerics.

But moving on from that, the Augury has no bearing on others as to whether they have to accept or reject it. The cleric interprets the augury (its not a voice in your head, its a request for an omen, hence the margin of error). He can even lie about it, theoretically. So its no different vis a vis other players as any other clerical RP, as the others see nothing they could interpret themselves.

Regarding DMs, I refer you to the PNP purpose of the spell I mentioned above, its for giving hints to PCs, not giving them all the answers. Its the DMs who decide whether a question is too vague or so specific no roll is needed. To help understand that, consider the inscrutable nature of the gods, the fact that the gods are not omnipotent, the fact the gods each have an agenda and finally, often answers are provided by lesser beings in service of the gods. Those factors are determined by the given DM overseeing the omen alone.

[Steve]

I refer you to the PNP purpose of the spell I mentioned above, its for giving hints to PCs, not giving them all the answers.

To help understand that, consider the inscrutable nature of the gods, the fact that the gods are not omnipotent, the fact the gods each have an agenda and finally, often answers are provided by lesser beings in service of the gods.

Hey, that's a fair interpretation, however...maybe it is best to rewrite the actual Spell description, which at this time says:

An augury can tell you whether a particular action will bring good or bad results for you in the immediate future.

...chance for receiving a meaningful reply...

The augury can see into the future only about half an hour...

I've highlighted the words that imply aspects of results of casting that are not inscrutable.

[DM Golem]

It is meaningful, it just requires wisdom to interpret! Meaningful in the context of success or failure of the spell simply means something that can be interpreted beyond the null result.

Similarly, seeing into the future does not mean with precision.

The wording reflects the PNP use of the spell, basically. And its not a perfect tool (far from it) in PNP

[Steve]

It is meaningful, it just requires wisdom to interpret!

Then conversely, it requires Wisdom to give it. And since the DMs are to RP the Gods and their Lesser Beings....

[DM Ioulaum]

It is meaningful, it just requires wisdom to interpret!

Then conversely, it requires Wisdom to give it. And since the DMs are to RP the Gods and their Lesser Beings....

The verdict of this augury is that its okay to use these spells and roleplay the results. They are not equivalent to skillrolls, the other player doesnt have to agree to respect the result because that result is only revealed to the caster.

Other characters may ignore or embrace their use as they will. That is an in character decision.